Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the destruction of the American dream.
Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the destruction of the American dream.
Sean Lewis August 3, 2009
1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured.
2) Preventative care to lower future costs
3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt.
Who could possibly be against this reform?
Republicans!
Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the US political system, with Bush having veto power for all eight and the GOP control of the Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost complete destruction of the US economy.
The country was on the brink of complete collapse the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An Administration and party that was in complete denial there was a problem with the economy.
It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion in a single quarter that saved the country from another Depression type collapse.
When economic pollicies almost end in complete collapse, in my book that means FAILURE! Why take advice from people who almost detroyed the very thing America needed to stay strong?
The effects are still being felt 3 quarters later, however we have steered away from the edge by NEW Democratic Leadership.
There is no longer talk of the US facing economic collapse, in fact there is talk of a stock market BULL rally.
Yet Republicans are using everything in their political arsenal to stop the Democrats and the Country itself from succeeding.
The lunatic fringe of the GOP are using lies, scare tactics, hatred and race baiting to focus the attention of the country away from healing and recovery to more of the same of the last 8 years. Division, strife, class warfare and most recently racism.
The latest obstruction to US recovery is healthcare reform.
Under the Bush Administration more people have entered the uninsured rolls, the costs associated with the Social Programs of Medicare, Medicaid have risen unchecked and even increased due to the one ‘FIX’ Republicans attempted, the Medicare Prescription Drug program that did not help anyone who was not insured and cost $850 Billion a year at it’s inception, this figure will climb as the Baby boomers retire all to give Viagra to the pension crowd.
The Republicans rather than fixing the healthcare system actually have hurried up it’s demise. Because of what the Republicans have done, Medicare and Medicaid will go bankrupt FASTER and the Baby Boomers will be left with FEWER options if any!
The Democrats are trying to fix this with reform in the form of preventative care, which will lower FUTURE costs of medical care.
Costs control by forcing the insurance and drug companies to offer lower priced care through competition.
Finally actually offering Minimal low cost coverage for the uninsured and unemployed!
Without these changes the fate of Healthcare will be similar to the collapse of the economy in the fall of 2008!
So the GOP is using scare tactics similar to the tactics to get this country into war with Iraq. Scare Tactics based on lies, half truths and misinformation.
The GOP is using their shock troops who still believe that President Obama was not born in the US despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary!
These individuals are now using the same Birther reasoning to shout abuse at town halls in an attempt to show Congress that America is against Health care reform.
These are the same people who thought….
There were WMD’s.
Terri Schiavo was not brain dead.
The was a connection between Iraq and 9/11.
Al qaeda was in Iraq before the Iraq Invasion.
Spying on Americans without a warrant is not against the law.
The White House was not responsible for the Treasonous release of a covert CIA Operatives identity.
The US not tortured Iraqis, some to death, and if they did it was to protect Americans, not to find a connection between Iraq and 9/11.
Bush did protect Americans from the 9/11 attack even after ignoring several dozen warnings of a pending attack.
I can go on and on , but lets skip to the latest lunatic fringe far right conspiracy which once again ignores the truth and the facts to tell the LIE, Obama is not an Native born American. The facts, a certified birth certificate and birth announcements in local papers announcing Obama’s birth seem not to matter to the hate driven core racist of the GOP, the fools who believe ignorance trumps intelligence, and incompetence arrogance and ignorance are forgivable even if it costs American lives
These are the people now giving advice on the Health Care solution!
Enough is enough!
If you want failure as we had the last 8 years, listen to Republicans,
If you want the continued slow recovery and a future! Listen to the President and the Democrats!
Related posts:
- Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the destruction of the American dream.
- Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! Republican party is becoming the party…
- Fwd: Check out “DEMOCRATS STOP REPUBLICAN HEALTH CARE REFORM” on Paul Revere’s Riders
- Health Reform Is Just Subterfuge; Dream Is Democratic Dictatorship
- Can anyone explain how you can have serious Health Care reform without Tort Reform???
- Tort reform must be part of health care reform
- The Republican Health Insurance Reform Plan (5 months old now)
- Gallup: Obama Retains More Trust Than Republican Leaders On Health Reform
- CNN is now spiking health care reform ads criticizing insurers
- Republican Health Care proposals
Hollywood,
You can make that case about everything but that doesn’t mean every industry that gets into trouble should be bailed out by the government pumping other people’s money into it. Every industry has its food chain; suppliers, raw goods, manufacturing, shipping, marketing, etc. It’s unfortunate that those lower in the food chain suffer when those at the top of the chain fail, but that’s just the system. Competition and the fear of failing is what make industry thrive.
I’m in the IT industry. I’ve seen a lot of good people lose their jobs during the down turn. Why isn’t the government throwing money our way? And if they were, how would that be motivating us to evolve the industry, get more competitive, and learn to succeed in whatever environment we’re faced with? I’m glad the government didn’t bail us out. I think we’re better for it, and despite the pain, at the end of the day we’re going to be a lot more sustainable than we would have been if we had been artificially propped up with taxpayer funds.
As someone said… “we bought out the car company, now we’re buying the cars… do you want me to drive the fucking thing for you too?”
On Aug 5, 10:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > frankg, > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off people,if the > suppliers of those car dealers and manufacturers and banks lay off > people whose money do you think will be used to pay for unemployment > checks, food stamps if they need it, etc? > > On Aug 5, 8:42 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > Mark, > > > No kidding. I’m willing to bet I can drive the sales up on just about > > anything by offering to help pay for it with someone else’s money. > > What’s the point? > > > On Aug 5, 8:49 pm, Mark wrote: > > > > auto sales are up over 25% in europe under an identical program….it is > > > working > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:37 PM, VT VirtualTruth > > >
wrote: > > > > > I got news for you, the fact that the program was depletedr an identical > > > > program….it is working. > > > > so quickly shows there was a need and as a stimulus > > > > the earnings numbers for the auto industry says > > > > it worked. > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:17 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > Doc, > > > > > > You and VT should take the advice of Senato sales or Schumer ( > > > > D-NY ) > > > > > who said of the cash for clunkers program ” don’t fix what ain’t broke > > > > > ” . Health Care ain’t broken , it just needs a little adjustment, but > > > > > guys like Obama and his ilk want to crush it ! > > > > > ******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:00 pm, DOC828NDF wrote: > > > > > > > Hmm…. I would love to agree with you, but the Republicans may be > > > > > > onto something when they say “what’s the rush”… I mean, for > > > > > > example… What if we were to rush into a war without thinking it > > > > > > through? No diplomacy, and no planning… What if something goes wrong > > > > > > and its not as easy as we initially thought? Do we really have aan > > > > > > exit strategy? We need to take some time to think this thing through. > > > > > > After all, its not like anyone’s dying for healthcare > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 3:58 pm, VT Sean Lewis
wrote: > > > > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > > > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > > > > > > destruction of the American dream. > > > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > > > August 3, 2009 > > > > > > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > > > > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > > > > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > > > > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > > > > > > Republicans! > > > > > > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > > > > > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > > > > > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > > > > > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > > > > > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > > > > > > > The country was on the brink of complete collapse > > > > > > > the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An > > > > > > > Administration and party that was in complete > > > > > > > denial there was a problem with the economy. > > > > > > > > It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion > > > > > > > in a single quarter that saved the country from another > > > > > > > Depression type collapse. > > > > > > > > When economic pollicies almost end in complete > > > > > > > collapse, in my book that means FAILURE! Why > > > > > > > take advice from people who almost detroyed the > > > > > > > very thing America needed to stay strong? > > > > > > > > The effects are still being felt 3 quarters later, however > > > > > > > we have steered away from the edge by NEW Democratic > > > > > > > Leadership. > > > > > > > > There is no longer talk of the US facing economic collapse, > > > > > > > in fact there is talk of a stock market BULL rally. > > > > > > > > Yet Republicans are using everything in their political > > > > > > > arsenal to stop the Democrats and the Country itself > > > > > > > from succeeding. > > > > > > > > The lunatic fringe of the GOP are using lies, scare tactics, > > > > > > > hatred and race baiting to focus the attention of the country > > > > > > > away from healing and recovery to more of the same of the last > > > > > > > 8 years. Division, strife, class warfare and most recently > > > > > > > racism. > > > > > > > > The latest obstruction to US recovery is healthcare reform. > > > > > > > > Under the Bush Administration more people have entered the > > > > > > > uninsured rolls, the costs associated with the Social Programs > > > > > > > of Medicare, Medicaid have risen unchecked and even increased > > > > > > > due to the one ‘FIX’ Republicans attempted, the Medicare Prescription > > > > > > > Drug program that did not help anyone who was not insured and > > > > > > > cost $850 Billion a year at it’s inception, this figure > > > > > > > will climb as the Baby boomers retire all to give Viagra to the > > > > > > > pension > > > > > > > crowd. > > > > > > > > The Republicans rather than fixing the healthcare system actually > > > > > > > have hurried up it’s demise. Because of what the Republicans have > > > > > > > done, > > > > > > > Medicare and Medicaid will go bankrupt FASTER and the Baby Boomers > > > > > > > will be left with FEWER options if any! > > > > > > > > The Democrats are trying to fix this with reform in the form > > > > > > > of preventative care, which will lower FUTURE costs of medical care. > > > > > > > > Costs control by forcing the insurance and drug companies to offer > > > > > > > lower priced care through competition. > > > > > > > > Finally actually offering Minimal low cost coverage for the uninsured > > > > > > > and unemployed! > > > > > > > > Without these changes the fate of Healthcare will be similar to the > > > > > > > collapse of the economy in the fall of 2008! > > > > > > > > So the GOP is using scare tactics similar to the tactics to get > > > > > > > this country into war with Iraq. Scare Tactics based on lies, half > > > > > > > truths > > > > > > > and misinformation. > > > > > > > > The GOP is using their shock troops who still believe that President > > > > > > > Obama > > > > > > > was not born in the US despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary! > > > > > > > > These individuals are now using the same Birther reasoning to shout > > > > > > > abuse at town halls in an attempt to show Congress that America is > > > > > > > against Health care reform. > > > > > > > > These are the same people who thought…. > > > > > > > > There were WMD’s. > > > > > > > > Terri Schiavo was not brain dead. > > > > > > > > The was a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > > > Al qaeda was in Iraq before the Iraq Invasion. > > > > > > > > Spying on Americans without a warrant is not against the law. > > > > > > > > The White House was not responsible for the Treasonous release > > > > > > > of a covert CIA Operatives identity. > > > > > > > > The US not tortured Iraqis, some to death, and if they did it was to > > > > > > > protect > > > > > > > Americans, not to find a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > > > Bush did protect Americans from the 9/11 attack > > > > > > > even after ignoring several dozen warnings of a pending attack. > > > > > > > > I can go on and on , but lets skip to the latest lunatic fringe > > > > > > > far right conspiracy which once again ignores the truth and the > > > > > > > facts to tell the LIE, Obama is not an Native born American. > > > > > > > The facts, a certified birth certificate and birth announcements > > > > > > > in local papers announcing Obama’s birth seem not to matter > > > > > > > to the hate driven core racist of the GOP, the fools who believe > > > > > > > ignorance trumps intelligence, and incompetence arrogance and > > > > > > > ignorance are forgivable even if it costs American lives > > > > > > > > These are the people now giving advice on the Health Care solution! > > > > > > > > Enough is enough! > > > > > > > > If you want failure as we had the last 8 years, listen to > > > > Republicans, > > > > > > > > If you want the continued slow recovery and a future! Listen to the > > > > > > > President and the Democrats!- Hide quoted text – > > > > > > > – Show quoted text – > > > > — > > > Mark M. Kahle, ,www.filacoffee.com-Hidequoted text – > > > > – Show quoted text — Hide quoted text – > > > – Show quoted text — Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
You don’t remember because you never listened. Bush’s lack of control was a hot button on the right. That YOU never noticed it is not an indictment of any one but you.
On Aug 5, 5:19 pm, Hollywood wrote: > Zeb, > > Why would I spend a lot of time listening to right wing radio? I > didn’t see any of you “and your ilk” constantly quoting Savage and > Hannity’s fierce denunciations of Bush’s spending policies during the > Bush administration. You boys DO remember that it was a Republican > dominated Congress passing most of those those bills Bush refused to > veto, right? > Huh, and yet somehow in spite of your revulsion for his spending > policies “the right” solidly supported him for a 2nd term in office. > And yet are ready to practically hang President obama after barely six > months. Most curious. > > On Aug 5, 4:08 pm, Zebnick wrote: > > > Oh fer Christ’s sake, do you really require an unabridged list? If you > > listened to right wing radio, which I’m sure you find a abhorrent, > > you’d know how disgruntled the right was with Bush’s spending or lack > > of control thereof. > > > On Aug 5, 5:00 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > Zeb, > > > > Better. That’s TWO examples from TWO conservative talk show hosts in > > > EIGHT years. > > > STILL not impressed. > > > > On Aug 5, 3:56 pm, Zebnick wrote: > > > > > I only pointed out Savage because he not only criticized Bush, but > > > > called him the worst. Even Hannity raged at Bush’s refusal to veto ANY > > > > spending bill. > > > > > On Aug 5, 4:37 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > Zeb, > > > > > > You haven’t yet noticed a difference between what politicians SAY and > > > > > what they DO? Ronald Reagan hasn’t been President in over 20 years > > > > > BTW. Bush was excoriated by conservative Republicans for 8 yeras for > > > > > not vetoing any spending bills? By people here? Am I talking to > > > > > unidentified “Talk Shows” or am I talking to the people here? > > > > > Mike Savage? One that’s ONE examople by ONE conservative talk show > > > > > host in EIGHT years. > > > > > I’m not impressed. > > > > > > On Aug 5, 11:52 am, Zebnick wrote: > > > > > > > What the hell are you talking about Holly? There is no “sudden” > > > > > > disdain for government by Republicans. Reagan said famously > > > > > > “Government doesn’t solve the problem, government IS the problem.” > > > > > > Bush was excoriated for 8 years on talk radio for not vetoing any > > > > > > spending bills. I believe Michael Savage said W was the worst > > > > > > president he’d ever experienced. And I don’t give a damn what color > > > > > > Barry is. His attempts to give more and more power to government is > > > > > > DANGEROUS and inevitably RUINOUS! > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 12:38 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > Zeb, > > > > > > > > How come all you conservatives just suddenly grew a pair of cajones > > > > > > > over the past six months? This has been going on for a 100 plus > > > > > > > fucking years and you boys only notice NOW? WTF, someone expalin this > > > > > > > to me. C’mon what is it REALLY? > > > > > > > You’ll take a fucking from govt. led by a white man but not a govt. > > > > > > > led by a black one? What? > > > > > > > > It’s NEWS to you boys govt. wastes money? > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 11:26 am, Zebnick wrote: > > > > > > > > > >Do you not understand the govt. is pretty much going to spend your >money any fucking way it pleases and that it has pretty much >always been that way? > > > > > > > > > Thats why we have to fight, at every juncture, the ways the government > > > > > > > > CAN spend our money. They SUCK at it. They waste it. They buy loyalty > > > > > > > > and votes with it. I’m not against universal health care. Even single > > > > > > > > payer. But NOT run by the government. They are the worst, the absolute > > > > > > > > WORST at running things. > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 12:14 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > > > You are absolutely nuts if you think I’m going to sit here all day and > > > > > > > > > discuss what is fair or not, what is stealing and what is not. If > > > > > > > > > that is NOT the point then don’t ask me what I’d do if the govt. came > > > > > > > > > to steal my house. You do not seem to understand the concept of > > > > > > > > > proportion, or balance or even the common sense of choosing one fights > > > > > > > > > carefully. > > > > > > > > > It’s like this, I believe I have a right to defend my life and > > > > > > > > > property. Ok? Regarding proportional response, am I going to kill a > > > > > > > > > person if he comes into my home and steals my microwave and TV? NO, > > > > > > > > > that’s just stuff and is insured anyway, a human life is more > > > > > > > > > valuable. If that same person approaches me with a weapon during the > > > > > > > > > very same incident? Yep, going to blow his head off with my Mossberg. > > > > > > > > > I value MY life more than His. proportional response. > > > > > > > > > Where did you sign up to pay for the invasion of Iraq? Do you not > > > > > > > > > understand the govt. is pretty much going to spend your money any > > > > > > > > > fucking way it pleases and that it has pretty much always been that > > > > > > > > > way? What is it with you people wanting to pretend the Federal Govt. > > > > > > > > > and all it’s faults was just invented 6 months ago? Are you all crazy? > > > > > > > > > > I’ll draw MY line where I need to, you draws yours as you see fit. > > > > > > > > > Don’t tell me where to draw MY line. > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:27 am, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hell yeah, and you know… I’m going to be by your side supporting and > > > > > > > > > > cheering you on the entire way. > > > > > > > > > > > But isn’t that the point; the idea of ’stealing’ from you that which > > > > > > > > > > is yours so that it can be given to others without your approval is > > > > > > > > > > UNacceptable and you will defend it. Sometimes we just can’t follow > > > > > > > > > > our Dad’s advice about acceptance. > > > > > > > > > > > So why do you feel it’s acceptable to defend your property (your home) > > > > > > > > > > from being unfairly taken yet I must accept my property (my income) > > > > > > > > > > being taken unfairly? Where are you drawing the line? You can make a > > > > > > > > > > case I have a moral obligation to pay taxes that will help the needy > > > > > > > > > > with food, housing and health care, and I can accept that. But where > > > > > > > > > > did I ever sign up to start bailing out companies that can’t run > > > > > > > > > > competitively? Where did I ever sign up to start helping my neighbors > > > > > > > > > > buy new cars? In my opinion our Government has crossed WAY over the > > > > > > > > > > line and I am no longer willing to simply accept it as unfair. > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:30 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > > > > > Any city, state or federal govt. employee that shows up to take my > > > > > > > > > > > home from me without due cause is going to get shot right between the > > > > > > > > > > > eyes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, is THAT direct and simple enough for you to understand? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 12:31 am, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea but then, that’s not what I said. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point I made was; > > > > > > > > > > > > > Government reaches into my pocket to help buy itself a majority shares > > > > > > > > > > > > in GM. I don’t benefit from this and I’m sure you’d say “life isn’t > > > > > > > > > > > > fair” > > > > > > > > > > > > Government reaches into my pocket to help hand out up to $4500 to > > > > > > > > > > > > people who own ‘clunkers’. I don’t benefit from this and have to pay > > > > > > > > > > > > full price for a car. You say “life isn’t fair” > > > > > > > > > > > > Government reaches into my pocket to help hand out TAP money to > > > > > > > > > > > > college students. My daughter doesn’t qualify and have to pay her full > > > > > > > > > > > > tuition out of pocket. I’m sure you’d say “life isn’t fair”. (this > > > > > > > > > > > > was a new point, I was on a roll). > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I throw at you an admittedly inflated but definitely consistent > > > > > > > > > > > > with the theme scenario; > > > > > > > > > > > > > Government steps in and takes away your home to help fund low income > > > > > > > > > > > > housing. You don’t qualify so must pay full price for a new home. I > > > > > > > > > > > > say “life isn’t fair”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you agree that it’s all just a matter of life being unfair or would > > > > > > > > > > > > you feel compelled to rise up and stop what government was doing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 11:37 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Frankg, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who’s having cars taken away from them by the govt.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 5:58 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I too learned that lesson at an early age, but there are limits to my > > > > > > > > > > > > > > acceptance. I’m willing to bet that if the government decided they > > > > > > > > > > > > > > were going to step in and take away your home you would not simply > > > > > > > > > > > > > > stand by and think “damn, this is rather unfair…. but OK”. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 6:30 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > frankg.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My late father once told me that life is not always fair. i was simply > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > crushed by that notion. Of course i was only six years old at the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time. At age 60 I’ve learned a level of acceptance. I’d like to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > suggest > > … > > read more »
Hollywood -
I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your reply.
As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following:
First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers.
Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state laws and thus make them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition and reduce prices.
Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing the “Cadillac policies”.
Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers.
It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would understand it and it would actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add value.
Please let me know what you think of the ideas.
On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > Richard, > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > universal health care for their citizens? > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > Hollywood – > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > you. Do you think that the federal government will more efficiently > > administer the healthcare in our country? > > > On Aug 5, 9:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > frankg, > > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off people,if the > > > suppliers of those car dealers and manufacturers and banks lay off > > > people whose money do you think will be used to pay for unemployment > > > checks, food stamps if they need it, etc? > > > > On Aug 5, 8:42 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > Mark, > > > > > No kidding. I’m willing to bet I can drive the sales up on just about > > > > anything by offering to help pay for it with someone else’s money. > > > > What’s the point? > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:49 pm, Mark wrote: > > > > > > auto sales are up over 25% in europe under an identical program….it is > > > > > working > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:37 PM, VT VirtualTruth > > > > >
wrote: > > > > > > > I got news for you, the fact that the program was depletedr an identical > > > > > > program….it is working. > > > > > > so quickly shows there was a need and as a stimulus > > > > > > the earnings numbers for the auto industry says > > > > > > it worked. > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:17 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > > Doc, > > > > > > > > You and VT should take the advice of Senato sales or Schumer ( > > > > > > D-NY ) > > > > > > > who said of the cash for clunkers program ” don’t fix what ain’t broke > > > > > > > ” . Health Care ain’t broken , it just needs a little adjustment, but > > > > > > > guys like Obama and his ilk want to crush it ! > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:00 pm, DOC828NDF wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hmm…. I would love to agree with you, but the Republicans may be > > > > > > > > onto something when they say “what’s the rush”… I mean, for > > > > > > > > example… What if we were to rush into a war without thinking it > > > > > > > > through? No diplomacy, and no planning… What if something goes wrong > > > > > > > > and its not as easy as we initially thought? Do we really have aan > > > > > > > > exit strategy? We need to take some time to think this thing through. > > > > > > > > After all, its not like anyone’s dying for healthcare > > > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 3:58 pm, VT Sean Lewis
wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > > > > > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > > > > > > > > destruction of the American dream. > > > > > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > > > > > August 3, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > > > > > > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > > > > > > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > > > > > > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > > > > > > > > Republicans! > > > > > > > > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > > > > > > > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > > > > > > > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > > > > > > > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > > > > > > > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > > > > > > > > > The country was on the brink of complete collapse > > > > > > > > > the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An > > > > > > > > > Administration and party that was in complete > > > > > > > > > denial there was a problem with the economy. > > > > > > > > > > It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion > > > > > > > > > in a single quarter that saved the country from another > > > > > > > > > Depression type collapse. > > > > > > > > > > When economic pollicies almost end in complete > > > > > > > > > collapse, in my book that means FAILURE! Why > > > > > > > > > take advice from people who almost detroyed the > > > > > > > > > very thing America needed to stay strong? > > > > > > > > > > The effects are still being felt 3 quarters later, however > > > > > > > > > we have steered away from the edge by NEW Democratic > > > > > > > > > Leadership. > > > > > > > > > > There is no longer talk of the US facing economic collapse, > > > > > > > > > in fact there is talk of a stock market BULL rally. > > > > > > > > > > Yet Republicans are using everything in their political > > > > > > > > > arsenal to stop the Democrats and the Country itself > > > > > > > > > from succeeding. > > > > > > > > > > The lunatic fringe of the GOP are using lies, scare tactics, > > > > > > > > > hatred and race baiting to focus the attention of the country > > > > > > > > > away from healing and recovery to more of the same of the last > > > > > > > > > 8 years. Division, strife, class warfare and most recently > > > > > > > > > racism. > > > > > > > > > > The latest obstruction to US recovery is healthcare reform. > > > > > > > > > > Under the Bush Administration more people have entered the > > > > > > > > > uninsured rolls, the costs associated with the Social Programs > > > > > > > > > of Medicare, Medicaid have risen unchecked and even increased > > > > > > > > > due to the one ‘FIX’ Republicans attempted, the Medicare Prescription > > > > > > > > > Drug program that did not help anyone who was not insured and > > > > > > > > > cost $850 Billion a year at it’s inception, this figure > > > > > > > > > will climb as the Baby boomers retire all to give Viagra to the > > > > > > > > > pension > > > > > > > > > crowd. > > > > > > > > > > The Republicans rather than fixing the healthcare system actually > > > > > > > > > have hurried up it’s demise. Because of what the Republicans have > > > > > > > > > done, > > > > > > > > > Medicare and Medicaid will go bankrupt FASTER and the Baby Boomers > > > > > > > > > will be left with FEWER options if any! > > > > > > > > > > The Democrats are trying to fix this with reform in the form > > > > > > > > > of preventative care, which will lower FUTURE costs of medical care. > > > > > > > > > > Costs control by forcing the insurance and drug companies to offer > > > > > > > > > lower priced care through competition. > > > > > > > > > > Finally actually offering Minimal low cost coverage for the uninsured > > > > > > > > > and unemployed! > > > > > > > > > > Without these changes the fate of Healthcare will be similar to the > > > > > > > > > collapse of the economy in the fall of 2008! > > > > > > > > > > So the GOP is using scare tactics similar to the tactics to get > > > > > > > > > this country into war with Iraq. Scare Tactics based on lies, half > > > > > > > > > truths > > > > > > > > > and misinformation. > > > > > > > > > > The GOP is using their shock troops who still believe that President > > > > > > > > > Obama > > > > > > > > > was not born in the US despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary! > > > > > > > > > > These individuals are now using the same Birther reasoning to shout > > > > > > > > > abuse at town halls in an attempt to show Congress that America is > > > > > > > > > against Health care reform. > > > > > > > > > > These are the same people who thought…. > > > > > > > > > > There were WMD’s. > > > > > > > > > > Terri Schiavo was not brain dead. > > > > > > > > > > The was a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > > > > > Al qaeda was in Iraq before the Iraq Invasion. > > > > > > > > > > Spying on Americans without a warrant is not against the law. > > > > > > > > > > The White House was not responsible for the Treasonous release > > > > > > > > > of a covert CIA Operatives identity. > > > > > > > > > > The US not tortured Iraqis, some to death, and if they did it was to > > > > > > > > > protect > > > > > > > > > Americans, not to find a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > > > > > Bush did protect Americans from the 9/11 attack > > > > > > > > > even after ignoring several dozen warnings of a pending attack. > > > > > > > > > > I can go on and on , but lets skip to the latest lunatic fringe > > > > > > > > > far right conspiracy which once again ignores the truth and the > > > > > > > > > facts to tell the LIE, Obama is not an Native born American. > > > > > > > > > The facts, a certified birth certificate and birth announcements > > > > > > > > > in local papers announcing Obama’s birth seem not to matter > > > > > > > > > to the hate driven core racist of the GOP, the fools who believe > > > > > > > > > ignorance trumps intelligence, and incompetence arrogance and > > > > > > > > > ignorance are forgivable even if it costs American lives > > > > > > > > > > These are the people now giving advice on the Health Care solution! > > > > > > > > > > Enough is enough! > > > > > > > > > > If you want failure as we had the last 8 years, listen to > > > > > > Republicans, > > > > > > > > > > If you want the continued slow recovery and a future! Listen to the > > > > > > > > > President and the Democrats!- Hide quoted text – > > > > > > > > > – Show quoted text – > > > > > > — > > > > > Mark M. Kahle, ,www.filacoffee.com-Hidequotedtext- > > > > > > – Show quoted > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
VT,
You say ” reform ” I say it’s “amnesty “. So why do law abiding citizens have to pay for 12 to 15 million ” illegal alien immigrants ” health care, welfare, schooling or anything else. THEY ARE HERE “ILLEGALALLY” DUHHH!
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On Aug 5, 9:40 pm, VT VirtualTruth wrote: > The GOP stopped ANY reform from happening and NOW > you are bitching because there is STILL a illegal immigration > problem! DUH! > > So the GOP is trying the same thing with Health Care Reform, > and if they manage to STOP all reform I can see you bitching in > 7 years when Medicaid and Medicare become insolvent because > of the baby boomers retiring about why didn’t the Government > fix health care! > > On Aug 5, 8:58 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > VT, > > > The repubs did not block any immigration laws, ( I > > guess you mean amnesty ). It is the ” illegal alien Immigrants who > > have broken the laws. Now you and the other ” sponge monkey ” > > parasites want to give them free healthcare. DUHHHH! > > ********************************************************************************* > > > VT, > > > No! I mean redistribution of wealth by a socialist > > taking the hard earned money of the middle working class and giving > > it to parasite liberal ” sponge monkeys ” continuously looking for > > handouts like ACORN, unions, “illegal alien immigrants” and the rest > > of of the non working liberal class. > > > ********************************************************************************** > > > On Aug 5, 7:34 pm, VT VirtualTruth
wrote: > > > > IF the Republicans had not blocked the Immigration > > > laws, the issue of paying for illegal immigrants would > > > be mote. > > > > Republicans never looked for a way to pay for the Medicare > > > Drug Prescription Program, but now they are fiscal conservatives! > > > Preventative care will save $Trillions long term during the Baby > > > Boomer retirement. > > > > Redistribution of wealth? You mean taking trillions from working class > > > Americans and giving it to the Wealthiest Americans in ill conceived > > > and vote buying tax cuts during war time? > > > > The GOP is playing the race baiting card HARD! You just did it > > > yourself! > > > > Tax Cheats! What about off shore tax havens that the GOP > > > refused to regulate? > > > > On Aug 4, 11:57 am, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > VT, > > > > > 1. [ cost ]…… why should we pay > > > > for health care for 12 to 14 million ( illegal alien immigrants ) > > > > that is $230,000,000,000 extra in cost over ten years. > > > > > 2. No way to pay for it unless taxes > > > > for the working middle class goes up. Obama also wants to tax my > > > > health care benefits at work. > > > > > 3. Obama’s Redistribution of wealth > > > > dogma is an anti-American pro-socialist approach and is a catalyst for > > > > revolt > > > > > 4. Playing the race/class card to > > > > steal from the middle working & upper classes and not ( unions and > > > > minority organizations ) is based on ” divisiveness & hate ” by > > > > liberal fear mongers like you. > > > > > 5. Hypocrite liberal ” tax cheats ” > > > > like Geithner, Sebelius, Rangle, Dodd and Frank have no moral right to > > > > impose taxes on the American people and neither do you or guys like > > > > Holly. > > > > > ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > > > > > On Aug 3, 3:58 pm, VT Sean Lewis
wrote: > > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > > > > destruction of the American dream. > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > August 3, 2009 > > > > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > > > > Republicans! > > > > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > > > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > > > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > > > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > > > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > > > > > The country was on the brink of complete collapse > > > > > the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An > > > > > Administration and party that was in complete > > > > > denial there was a problem with the economy. > > > > > > It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion > > > > > in a single quarter that saved the country from another > > > > > Depression type collapse. > > > > > > When economic pollicies almost end in complete > > > > > collapse, in my book that means FAILURE! Why > > > > > take advice from people who almost detroyed the > > > > > very thing America needed to stay strong? > > > > > > The effects are still being felt 3 quarters later, however > > > > > we have steered away from the edge by NEW Democratic > > > > > Leadership. > > > > > > There is no longer talk of the US facing economic collapse, > > > > > in fact there is talk of a stock market BULL rally. > > > > > > Yet Republicans are using everything in their political > > > > > arsenal to stop the Democrats and the Country itself > > > > > from succeeding. > > > > > > The lunatic fringe of the GOP are using lies, scare tactics, > > > > > hatred and race baiting to focus the attention of the country > > > > > away from healing and recovery to more of the same of the last > > > > > 8 years. Division, strife, class warfare and most recently > > > > > racism. > > > > > > The latest obstruction to US recovery is healthcare reform. > > > > > > Under the Bush Administration more people have entered the > > > > > uninsured rolls, the costs associated with the Social Programs > > > > > of Medicare, Medicaid have risen unchecked and even increased > > > > > due to the one ‘FIX’ Republicans attempted, the Medicare Prescription > > > > > Drug program that did not help anyone who was not insured and > > > > > cost $850 Billion a year at it’s inception, this figure > > > > > will climb as the Baby boomers retire all to give Viagra to the > > > > > pension > > > > > crowd. > > > > > > The Republicans rather than fixing the healthcare system actually > > > > > have hurried up it’s demise. Because of what the Republicans have > > > > > done, > > > > > Medicare and Medicaid will go bankrupt FASTER and the Baby Boomers > > > > > will be left with FEWER options if any! > > > > > > The Democrats are trying to fix this with reform in the form > > > > > of preventative care, which will lower FUTURE costs of medical care. > > > > > > Costs control by forcing the insurance and drug companies to offer > > > > > lower priced care through competition. > > > > > > Finally actually offering Minimal low cost coverage for the uninsured > > > > > and unemployed! > > > > > > Without these changes the fate of Healthcare will be similar to the > > > > > collapse of the economy in the fall of 2008! > > > > > > So the GOP is using scare tactics similar to the tactics to get > > > > > this country into war with Iraq. Scare Tactics based on lies, half > > > > > truths > > > > > and misinformation. > > > > > > The GOP is using their shock troops who still believe that President > > > > > Obama > > > > > was not born in the US despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary! > > > > > > These individuals are now using the same Birther reasoning to shout > > > > > abuse at town halls in an attempt to show Congress that America is > > > > > against Health care reform. > > > > > > These are the same people who thought…. > > > > > > There were WMD’s. > > > > > > Terri Schiavo was not brain dead. > > > > > > The was a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > Al qaeda was in Iraq before the Iraq Invasion. > > > > > > Spying on Americans without a warrant is not against the law. > > > > > > The White House was not responsible for the Treasonous release > > > > > of a covert CIA Operatives identity. > > > > > > The US not tortured Iraqis, some to death, and if they did it was to > > > > > protect > > > > > Americans, not to find a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > Bush did protect Americans from the 9/11 attack > > > > > even after ignoring several dozen warnings of a pending attack. > > > > > > I can go on and on , but lets skip to the latest lunatic fringe > > > > > far right conspiracy which once again ignores the truth and the > > > > > facts to tell the LIE, Obama is not an Native born American. > > > > > The facts, a certified birth certificate and birth announcements > > > > > in local papers announcing Obama’s birth seem not to matter > > > > > to the hate driven core racist of the GOP, the fools who believe > > > > > ignorance trumps intelligence, and incompetence arrogance and > > > > > ignorance are forgivable even if it costs American lives > > > > > > These are the people now giving advice on the Health Care solution! > > > > > > Enough is enough! > > > > > > If you want failure as we had the last 8 years, listen to Republicans, > > > > > > If you want the continued slow recovery and a future! Listen to the > > > > > President and the Democrats!- Hide quoted text – > > > > – Show quoted text — Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
frankg,
Didn’t know we were talking about the wisdom of bailing out certain industries. I thought you were objecting to a govt, program that, as it did not directly and individually benefit you, you felt was unfair. That policy had multiple goals. To stimulate the auto manufacturing & sales business and at the same time take older more polluting and less fuel efficient cars off the road. And it appears to be working.Your objection seemed to be that as it did not personally benefit you it was “taking your money”. I pointed out how your money would be taken, and possibly more of it, without said policy.
Now, if you want to take up the general subject/issue of the govt. bailing out troubled industries that’s another issue. Why don’t you start a seperate thread about that particular issue?
On Aug 5, 9:44 pm, frankg wrote: > Hollywood, > > You can make that case about everything but that doesn’t mean every > industry that gets into trouble should be bailed out by the government > pumping other people’s money into it. Every industry has its food > chain; suppliers, raw goods, manufacturing, shipping, marketing, etc. > It’s unfortunate that those lower in the food chain suffer when those > at the top of the chain fail, but that’s just the system. Competition > and the fear of failing is what make industry thrive. > > I’m in the IT industry. I’ve seen a lot of good people lose their jobs > during the down turn. Why isn’t the government throwing money our > way? And if they were, how would that be motivating us to evolve the > industry, get more competitive, and learn to succeed in whatever > environment we’re faced with? I’m glad the government didn’t bail us > out. I think we’re better for it, and despite the pain, at the end of > the day we’re going to be a lot more sustainable than we would have > been if we had been artificially propped up with taxpayer funds. > > As someone said… “we bought out the car company, now we’re buying > the cars… do you want me to drive the fucking thing for you too?” > > On Aug 5, 10:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > frankg, > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off people,if the > > suppliers of those car dealers and manufacturers and banks lay off > > people whose money do you think will be used to pay for unemployment > > checks, food stamps if they need it, etc? > > > On Aug 5, 8:42 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > Mark, > > > > No kidding. I’m willing to bet I can drive the sales up on just about > > > anything by offering to help pay for it with someone else’s money. > > > What’s the point? > > > > On Aug 5, 8:49 pm, Mark wrote: > > > > > auto sales are up over 25% in europe under an identical program….it is > > > > working > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:37 PM, VT VirtualTruth > > > >
wrote: > > > > > > I got news for you, the fact that the program was depletedr an identical > > > > > program….it is working. > > > > > so quickly shows there was a need and as a stimulus > > > > > the earnings numbers for the auto industry says > > > > > it worked. > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:17 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > Doc, > > > > > > > You and VT should take the advice of Senato sales or Schumer ( > > > > > D-NY ) > > > > > > who said of the cash for clunkers program ” don’t fix what ain’t broke > > > > > > ” . Health Care ain’t broken , it just needs a little adjustment, but > > > > > > guys like Obama and his ilk want to crush it ! > > > > > > ******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:00 pm, DOC828NDF wrote: > > > > > > > > Hmm…. I would love to agree with you, but the Republicans may be > > > > > > > onto something when they say “what’s the rush”… I mean, for > > > > > > > example… What if we were to rush into a war without thinking it > > > > > > > through? No diplomacy, and no planning… What if something goes wrong > > > > > > > and its not as easy as we initially thought? Do we really have aan > > > > > > > exit strategy? We need to take some time to think this thing through. > > > > > > > After all, its not like anyone’s dying for healthcare > > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 3:58 pm, VT Sean Lewis
wrote: > > > > > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > > > > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > > > > > > > destruction of the American dream. > > > > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > > > > August 3, 2009 > > > > > > > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > > > > > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > > > > > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > > > > > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > > > > > > > Republicans! > > > > > > > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > > > > > > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > > > > > > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > > > > > > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > > > > > > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > > > > > > > > The country was on the brink of complete collapse > > > > > > > > the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An > > > > > > > > Administration and party that was in complete > > > > > > > > denial there was a problem with the economy. > > > > > > > > > It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion > > > > > > > > in a single quarter that saved the country from another > > > > > > > > Depression type collapse. > > > > > > > > > When economic pollicies almost end in complete > > > > > > > > collapse, in my book that means FAILURE! Why > > > > > > > > take advice from people who almost detroyed the > > > > > > > > very thing America needed to stay strong? > > > > > > > > > The effects are still being felt 3 quarters later, however > > > > > > > > we have steered away from the edge by NEW Democratic > > > > > > > > Leadership. > > > > > > > > > There is no longer talk of the US facing economic collapse, > > > > > > > > in fact there is talk of a stock market BULL rally. > > > > > > > > > Yet Republicans are using everything in their political > > > > > > > > arsenal to stop the Democrats and the Country itself > > > > > > > > from succeeding. > > > > > > > > > The lunatic fringe of the GOP are using lies, scare tactics, > > > > > > > > hatred and race baiting to focus the attention of the country > > > > > > > > away from healing and recovery to more of the same of the last > > > > > > > > 8 years. Division, strife, class warfare and most recently > > > > > > > > racism. > > > > > > > > > The latest obstruction to US recovery is healthcare reform. > > > > > > > > > Under the Bush Administration more people have entered the > > > > > > > > uninsured rolls, the costs associated with the Social Programs > > > > > > > > of Medicare, Medicaid have risen unchecked and even increased > > > > > > > > due to the one ‘FIX’ Republicans attempted, the Medicare Prescription > > > > > > > > Drug program that did not help anyone who was not insured and > > > > > > > > cost $850 Billion a year at it’s inception, this figure > > > > > > > > will climb as the Baby boomers retire all to give Viagra to the > > > > > > > > pension > > > > > > > > crowd. > > > > > > > > > The Republicans rather than fixing the healthcare system actually > > > > > > > > have hurried up it’s demise. Because of what the Republicans have > > > > > > > > done, > > > > > > > > Medicare and Medicaid will go bankrupt FASTER and the Baby Boomers > > > > > > > > will be left with FEWER options if any! > > > > > > > > > The Democrats are trying to fix this with reform in the form > > > > > > > > of preventative care, which will lower FUTURE costs of medical care. > > > > > > > > > Costs control by forcing the insurance and drug companies to offer > > > > > > > > lower priced care through competition. > > > > > > > > > Finally actually offering Minimal low cost coverage for the uninsured > > > > > > > > and unemployed! > > > > > > > > > Without these changes the fate of Healthcare will be similar to the > > > > > > > > collapse of the economy in the fall of 2008! > > > > > > > > > So the GOP is using scare tactics similar to the tactics to get > > > > > > > > this country into war with Iraq. Scare Tactics based on lies, half > > > > > > > > truths > > > > > > > > and misinformation. > > > > > > > > > The GOP is using their shock troops who still believe that President > > > > > > > > Obama > > > > > > > > was not born in the US despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary! > > > > > > > > > These individuals are now using the same Birther reasoning to shout > > > > > > > > abuse at town halls in an attempt to show Congress that America is > > > > > > > > against Health care reform. > > > > > > > > > These are the same people who thought…. > > > > > > > > > There were WMD’s. > > > > > > > > > Terri Schiavo was not brain dead. > > > > > > > > > The was a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > > > > Al qaeda was in Iraq before the Iraq Invasion. > > > > > > > > > Spying on Americans without a warrant is not against the law. > > > > > > > > > The White House was not responsible for the Treasonous release > > > > > > > > of a covert CIA Operatives identity. > > > > > > > > > The US not tortured Iraqis, some to death, and if they did it was to > > > > > > > > protect > > > > > > > > Americans, not to find a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > > > > Bush did protect Americans from the 9/11 attack > > > > > > > > even after ignoring several dozen warnings of a pending attack. > > > > > > > > > I can go on and on , but lets skip to the latest lunatic fringe > > > > > > > > far right conspiracy which once again ignores the truth and the > > > > > > > > facts to tell the LIE, Obama is not an Native born American. > > > > > > > > The facts, a certified birth certificate and birth announcements > > > > > > > > in local papers announcing Obama’s birth seem not to matter > > > > > > > > to the hate driven core racist of the GOP, the fools who believe > > > > > > > > ignorance trumps intelligence, and incompetence arrogance and > > > > > > > > ignorance are forgivable even if it costs American lives > > > > > > > > > These are the people now giving advice on the Health Care solution! > > > > > > > > > Enough is enough! > > > > > > > > > If you want failure as we had the last 8 years, listen to > > > > > Republicans, > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
Richard,
That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do not believe we have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or germany or the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been doing this for years, carefully examine the systems or several of the nations that seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the best ideas from each of them and adopt them to our own country. There is, I believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing only, that would help a great deal is to not link health insurance to one’s employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain the same insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to employer without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a county, state, whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance companies to insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just those not already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out some sort of interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have safeguards in place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING else. Fund it by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure there will be administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the administrative expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed (hopefully) the interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set a goodly portion of those administrative costs. that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top of my head.
And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive bids for all the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list of approved suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best price. if Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? Well to bad, guess some other drug store will get all the medicare business. Hell, how many people would start a drug store just to have all the medicare/ medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state?
And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your thinking, and that’s more than i can say for most people here and in our government.
On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > Hollywood – > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your > reply. > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following: > > First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group > and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to > obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state > laws and thus make > them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition > and reduce prices. > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing > the “Cadillac policies”. > > Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have > catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can > self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against > the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers. > > It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would > understand it and it would > actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to > ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I > recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to > limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add > value. > > Please let me know what you think of the ideas. > > On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Richard, > > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > > universal health care for their citizens? > > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > Hollywood – > > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > > you. Do you think that the federal government will more efficiently > > > administer the healthcare in our country? > > > > On Aug 5, 9:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > frankg, > > > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off people,if the > > > > suppliers of those car dealers and manufacturers and banks lay off > > > > people whose money do you think will be used to pay for unemployment > > > > checks, food stamps if they need it, etc? > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:42 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > No kidding. I’m willing to bet I can drive the sales up on just about > > > > > anything by offering to help pay for it with someone else’s money. > > > > > What’s the point? > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:49 pm, Mark wrote: > > > > > > > auto sales are up over 25% in europe under an identical program….it is > > > > > > working > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:37 PM, VT VirtualTruth > > > > > >
wrote: > > > > > > > > I got news for you, the fact that the program was depletedr an identical > > > > > > > program….it is working. > > > > > > > so quickly shows there was a need and as a stimulus > > > > > > > the earnings numbers for the auto industry says > > > > > > > it worked. > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:17 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > > > Doc, > > > > > > > > > You and VT should take the advice of Senato sales or Schumer ( > > > > > > > D-NY ) > > > > > > > > who said of the cash for clunkers program ” don’t fix what ain’t broke > > > > > > > > ” . Health Care ain’t broken , it just needs a little adjustment, but > > > > > > > > guys like Obama and his ilk want to crush it ! > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:00 pm, DOC828NDF wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hmm…. I would love to agree with you, but the Republicans may be > > > > > > > > > onto something when they say “what’s the rush”… I mean, for > > > > > > > > > example… What if we were to rush into a war without thinking it > > > > > > > > > through? No diplomacy, and no planning… What if something goes wrong > > > > > > > > > and its not as easy as we initially thought? Do we really have aan > > > > > > > > > exit strategy? We need to take some time to think this thing through. > > > > > > > > > After all, its not like anyone’s dying for healthcare > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 3:58 pm, VT Sean Lewis
wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > > > > > > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > > > > > > > > > destruction of the American dream. > > > > > > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > > > > > > August 3, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > > > > > > > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > > > > > > > > > Republicans! > > > > > > > > > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > > > > > > > > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > > > > > > > > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > > > > > > > > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > > > > > > > > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > > > > > > > > > > The country was on the brink of complete collapse > > > > > > > > > > the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An > > > > > > > > > > Administration and party that was in complete > > > > > > > > > > denial there was a problem with the economy. > > > > > > > > > > > It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion > > > > > > > > > > in a single quarter that saved the country from another > > > > > > > > > > Depression type collapse. > > > > > > > > > > > When economic pollicies almost end in complete > > > > > > > > > > collapse, in my book that means FAILURE! Why > > > > > > > > > > take advice from people who almost detroyed the > > > > > > > > > > very thing America needed to stay strong? > > > > > > > > > > > The effects are still being felt 3 quarters later, however > > > > > > > > > > we have steered away from the edge by NEW Democratic > > > > > > > > > > Leadership. > > > > > > > > > > > There is no longer talk of the US facing economic collapse, > > > > > > > > > > in fact there is talk of a stock market BULL rally. > > > > > > > > > > > Yet Republicans are using everything in their political > > > > > > > > > > arsenal to stop the Democrats and the Country itself > > > > > > > > > > from succeeding. > > > > > > > > > > > The lunatic fringe of the GOP are using lies, scare tactics, > > > > > > > > > > hatred and race baiting to focus the attention of the country > > > > > > > > > > away from healing and recovery to more of the same of the last > > > > > > > > > > 8 years. Division, strife, class warfare and most recently > > > > > > > > > > racism. > > > > > > > > > > > The latest obstruction to US recovery is healthcare reform. > > > > > > > > > > > Under the Bush Administration more people have entered the > > > > > > > > > > uninsured rolls, the costs associated with the Social Programs > > > > > > > > > > of Medicare, Medicaid have risen unchecked and even increased > > > > > > > > > > due to the one ‘FIX’ Republicans attempted, the Medicare Prescription > > > > > > > > > > Drug program that did not help anyone who was not insured and > > > > > > > > > > cost $850 Billion a year at it’s inception, this figure > > > > > > > > > > will climb as the Baby boomers retire all to give Viagra to the > > > > > > > > > > pension > > > > > > > > > > crowd. > > > > > > > > > > > The Republicans rather than fixing the healthcare system actually > > > > > > > > > > have hurried up it’s demise. Because of what the Republicans have > > > > > > > > > > done, > > > > > > > > > > Medicare and Medicaid will go bankrupt FASTER and the Baby Boomers > > > > > > > > > > will be left with FEWER options if any! > > > > > > > > > > > The Democrats are trying to fix this with reform in the form > > > > > > > > > > of preventative care, which will lower FUTURE costs of medical care. > > > > > > > > > > > Costs control by forcing the insurance and drug companies to offer > > > > > > > > > > lower priced care through competition. > > > > > > > > > > > Finally actually offering Minimal low cost coverage for the uninsured > > > > > > > > > > and unemployed! > > > > > > > > > > > Without these changes the fate of Healthcare will be similar to the > > > > > > > > > > collapse of the economy in the fall of 2008! > > > > > > > > > > > So the GOP is using scare tactics similar to the tactics to get > > > > > > > > > > this country into war with Iraq. Scare Tactics based on lies, half > > > > > > > > > > truths > > > > > > > > > > and misinformation. > > > > > > > > > > > The GOP is using their shock troops who still believe that President > > > > > > > > > > Obama > > > > > > > > > > was not born in the US despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary! > > > > > > > > > > > These individuals are now using the same Birther reasoning to shout > > > > > > > > > > abuse at town halls in an attempt to show Congress that > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
Sage2,
Whi has said that illegal aliens WOULD be covered by any national, universal healtcare plan?
On Aug 5, 10:00 pm, Sage2 wrote: > VT, > > You say ” reform ” I say it’s “amnesty “. So why do > law abiding citizens have to pay for 12 to 15 million ” illegal alien > immigrants ” health care, welfare, schooling or anything else. THEY > ARE HERE “ILLEGALALLY” DUHHH! > > ****************************************************************************************************************************************** > > On Aug 5, 9:40 pm, VT VirtualTruth
wrote: > > > > > The GOP stopped ANY reform from happening and NOW > > you are bitching because there is STILL a illegal immigration > > problem! DUH! > > > So the GOP is trying the same thing with Health Care Reform, > > and if they manage to STOP all reform I can see you bitching in > > 7 years when Medicaid and Medicare become insolvent because > > of the baby boomers retiring about why didn’t the Government > > fix health care! > > > On Aug 5, 8:58 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > VT, > > > > The repubs did not block any immigration laws, ( I > > > guess you mean amnesty ). It is the ” illegal alien Immigrants who > > > have broken the laws. Now you and the other ” sponge monkey ” > > > parasites want to give them free healthcare. DUHHHH! > > > ********************************************************************************* > > > > VT, > > > > No! I mean redistribution of wealth by a socialist > > > taking the hard earned money of the middle working class and giving > > > it to parasite liberal ” sponge monkeys ” continuously looking for > > > handouts like ACORN, unions, “illegal alien immigrants” and the rest > > > of of the non working liberal class. > > > > ********************************************************************************** > > > > On Aug 5, 7:34 pm, VT VirtualTruth
wrote: > > > > > IF the Republicans had not blocked the Immigration > > > > laws, the issue of paying for illegal immigrants would > > > > be mote. > > > > > Republicans never looked for a way to pay for the Medicare > > > > Drug Prescription Program, but now they are fiscal conservatives! > > > > Preventative care will save $Trillions long term during the Baby > > > > Boomer retirement. > > > > > Redistribution of wealth? You mean taking trillions from working class > > > > Americans and giving it to the Wealthiest Americans in ill conceived > > > > and vote buying tax cuts during war time? > > > > > The GOP is playing the race baiting card HARD! You just did it > > > > yourself! > > > > > Tax Cheats! What about off shore tax havens that the GOP > > > > refused to regulate? > > > > > On Aug 4, 11:57 am, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > VT, > > > > > > 1. [ cost ]…… why should we pay > > > > > for health care for 12 to 14 million ( illegal alien immigrants ) > > > > > that is $230,000,000,000 extra in cost over ten years. > > > > > > 2. No way to pay for it unless taxes > > > > > for the working middle class goes up. Obama also wants to tax my > > > > > health care benefits at work. > > > > > > 3. Obama’s Redistribution of wealth > > > > > dogma is an anti-American pro-socialist approach and is a catalyst for > > > > > revolt > > > > > > 4. Playing the race/class card to > > > > > steal from the middle working & upper classes and not ( unions and > > > > > minority organizations ) is based on ” divisiveness & hate ” by > > > > > liberal fear mongers like you. > > > > > > 5. Hypocrite liberal ” tax cheats ” > > > > > like Geithner, Sebelius, Rangle, Dodd and Frank have no moral right to > > > > > impose taxes on the American people and neither do you or guys like > > > > > Holly. > > > > > > ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > > > > > > On Aug 3, 3:58 pm, VT Sean Lewis
wrote: > > > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > > > > > destruction of the American dream. > > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > > August 3, 2009 > > > > > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > > > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > > > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > > > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > > > > > Republicans! > > > > > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > > > > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > > > > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > > > > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > > > > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > > > > > > The country was on the brink of complete collapse > > > > > > the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An > > > > > > Administration and party that was in complete > > > > > > denial there was a problem with the economy. > > > > > > > It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion > > > > > > in a single quarter that saved the country from another > > > > > > Depression type collapse. > > > > > > > When economic pollicies almost end in complete > > > > > > collapse, in my book that means FAILURE! Why > > > > > > take advice from people who almost detroyed the > > > > > > very thing America needed to stay strong? > > > > > > > The effects are still being felt 3 quarters later, however > > > > > > we have steered away from the edge by NEW Democratic > > > > > > Leadership. > > > > > > > There is no longer talk of the US facing economic collapse, > > > > > > in fact there is talk of a stock market BULL rally. > > > > > > > Yet Republicans are using everything in their political > > > > > > arsenal to stop the Democrats and the Country itself > > > > > > from succeeding. > > > > > > > The lunatic fringe of the GOP are using lies, scare tactics, > > > > > > hatred and race baiting to focus the attention of the country > > > > > > away from healing and recovery to more of the same of the last > > > > > > 8 years. Division, strife, class warfare and most recently > > > > > > racism. > > > > > > > The latest obstruction to US recovery is healthcare reform. > > > > > > > Under the Bush Administration more people have entered the > > > > > > uninsured rolls, the costs associated with the Social Programs > > > > > > of Medicare, Medicaid have risen unchecked and even increased > > > > > > due to the one ‘FIX’ Republicans attempted, the Medicare Prescription > > > > > > Drug program that did not help anyone who was not insured and > > > > > > cost $850 Billion a year at it’s inception, this figure > > > > > > will climb as the Baby boomers retire all to give Viagra to the > > > > > > pension > > > > > > crowd. > > > > > > > The Republicans rather than fixing the healthcare system actually > > > > > > have hurried up it’s demise. Because of what the Republicans have > > > > > > done, > > > > > > Medicare and Medicaid will go bankrupt FASTER and the Baby Boomers > > > > > > will be left with FEWER options if any! > > > > > > > The Democrats are trying to fix this with reform in the form > > > > > > of preventative care, which will lower FUTURE costs of medical care. > > > > > > > Costs control by forcing the insurance and drug companies to offer > > > > > > lower priced care through competition. > > > > > > > Finally actually offering Minimal low cost coverage for the uninsured > > > > > > and unemployed! > > > > > > > Without these changes the fate of Healthcare will be similar to the > > > > > > collapse of the economy in the fall of 2008! > > > > > > > So the GOP is using scare tactics similar to the tactics to get > > > > > > this country into war with Iraq. Scare Tactics based on lies, half > > > > > > truths > > > > > > and misinformation. > > > > > > > The GOP is using their shock troops who still believe that President > > > > > > Obama > > > > > > was not born in the US despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary! > > > > > > > These individuals are now using the same Birther reasoning to shout > > > > > > abuse at town halls in an attempt to show Congress that America is > > > > > > against Health care reform. > > > > > > > These are the same people who thought…. > > > > > > > There were WMD’s. > > > > > > > Terri Schiavo was not brain dead. > > > > > > > The was a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > > Al qaeda was in Iraq before the Iraq Invasion. > > > > > > > Spying on Americans without a warrant is not against the law. > > > > > > > The White House was not responsible for the Treasonous release > > > > > > of a covert CIA Operatives identity. > > > > > > > The US not tortured Iraqis, some to death, and if they did it was to > > > > > > protect > > > > > > Americans, not to find a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > > Bush did protect Americans from the 9/11 attack > > > > > > even after ignoring several dozen warnings of a pending attack. > > > > > > > I can go on and on , but lets skip to the latest lunatic fringe > > > > > > far right conspiracy which once again ignores the truth and the > > > > > > facts to tell the LIE, Obama is not an Native born American. > > > > > > The facts, a certified birth certificate and birth announcements > > > > > > in local papers announcing Obama’s birth seem not to matter > > > > > > to the hate driven core racist of the GOP, the fools who believe > > > > > > ignorance trumps intelligence, and incompetence arrogance and > > > > > > ignorance are forgivable even if it costs American lives > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
We have attempted to make our pension benefits portable. The same idea is important for healthcare, though the implementation is a bit different. I think that the combination of a government clearing house for small employers and individuals along with a federal exemption similar to ERISA would provide a bsais for the capacity to create a more portable system. Any person teminated could gain access through the clearing house and any person changing employers would have the same capacity. It would eliminate much of the need for insurers to have pre-existing condition clauses because the size of the group would be large enough to limit the risk of adverse selection.
On Aug 5, 10:46 pm, Hollywood wrote: > Richard, > > That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do not believe we > have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or germany or > the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been doing this for > years, carefully examine the systems or several of the nations that > seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the best ideas > from each of them and adopt them to our own country. There is, I > believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing only, that > would help a great deal is to not link health insurance to one’s > employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain the same > insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to employer > without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a county, state, > whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance companies to > insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just those not > already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out some sort of > interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have safeguards in > place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING else. Fund it > by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure there will be > administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the administrative > expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed (hopefully) the > interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set a goodly > portion of those administrative costs. > that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top of my head. > > And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive bids for all > the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list of approved > suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best price. if > Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? Well to bad, > guess some other drug store will get all the medicare business. Hell, > how many people would start a drug store just to have all the medicare/ > medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state? > > And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your thinking, and > that’s more than i can say for most people here and in our government. > > On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > Hollywood – > > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an > > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it > > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your > > reply. > > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), > > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following: > > > First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group > > and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to > > obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to > > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much > > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state > > laws and thus make > > them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition > > and reduce prices. > > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a > > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing > > the “Cadillac policies”. > > > Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have > > catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can > > self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against > > the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers. > > > It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would > > understand it and it would > > actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to > > ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I > > recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to > > limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add > > value. > > > Please let me know what you think of the ideas. > > > On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > > > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > > > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > > > universal health care for their citizens? > > > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > > > you. Do you think that the federal government will more efficiently > > > > administer the healthcare in our country? > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > > > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off people,if the > > > > > suppliers of those car dealers and manufacturers and banks lay off > > > > > people whose money do you think will be used to pay for unemployment > > > > > checks, food stamps if they need it, etc? > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:42 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > > No kidding. I’m willing to bet I can drive the sales up on just about > > > > > > anything by offering to help pay for it with someone else’s money. > > > > > > What’s the point? > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:49 pm, Mark wrote: > > > > > > > > auto sales are up over 25% in europe under an identical program….it is > > > > > > > working > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:37 PM, VT VirtualTruth > > > > > > >
wrote: > > > > > > > > > I got news for you, the fact that the program was depletedr an identical > > > > > > > > program….it is working. > > > > > > > > so quickly shows there was a need and as a stimulus > > > > > > > > the earnings numbers for the auto industry says > > > > > > > > it worked. > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:17 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Doc, > > > > > > > > > > You and VT should take the advice of Senato sales or Schumer ( > > > > > > > > D-NY ) > > > > > > > > > who said of the cash for clunkers program ” don’t fix what ain’t broke > > > > > > > > > ” . Health Care ain’t broken , it just needs a little adjustment, but > > > > > > > > > guys like Obama and his ilk want to crush it ! > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:00 pm, DOC828NDF wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm…. I would love to agree with you, but the Republicans may be > > > > > > > > > > onto something when they say “what’s the rush”… I mean, for > > > > > > > > > > example… What if we were to rush into a war without thinking it > > > > > > > > > > through? No diplomacy, and no planning… What if something goes wrong > > > > > > > > > > and its not as easy as we initially thought? Do we really have aan > > > > > > > > > > exit strategy? We need to take some time to think this thing through. > > > > > > > > > > After all, its not like anyone’s dying for healthcare > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 3:58 pm, VT Sean Lewis
wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > > > > > > > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > > > > > > > > > > destruction of the American dream. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > August 3, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > > > > > > > > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > > > > > > > > > > Republicans! > > > > > > > > > > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > > > > > > > > > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > > > > > > > > > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > > > > > > > > > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > > > > > > > > > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > > > > > > > > > > > The country was on the brink of complete collapse > > > > > > > > > > > the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An > > > > > > > > > > > Administration and party that was in complete > > > > > > > > > > > denial there was a problem with the economy. > > > > > > > > > > > > It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion > > > > > > > > > > > in a single quarter that saved the country from another > > > > > > > > > > > Depression type collapse. > > > > > > > > > > > > When economic pollicies almost end in complete > > > > > > > > > > > collapse, in my book that means FAILURE! Why > > > > > > > > > > > take advice from people who almost detroyed the > > > > > > > > > > > very thing America needed to stay strong? > > > > > > > > > > > > The effects are still being felt 3 quarters later, however > > > > > > > > > > > we have steered away from the edge by NEW Democratic > > > > > > > > > > > Leadership. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no longer talk of the US facing economic collapse, > > > > > > > > > > > in fact there is talk of a stock market BULL rally. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yet Republicans are using everything in their political > > > > > > > > > > > arsenal to stop the Democrats and the Country itself > > > > > > > > > > > from succeeding. > > > > > > > > > > > > The lunatic fringe of the GOP are using lies, scare tactics, > > > > > > > > > > > hatred and race baiting to focus the attention of the country > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
Richard,
Very good idea.
On Aug 5, 10:53 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > We have attempted to make our pension benefits portable. The same > idea is important for healthcare, though the implementation is a bit > different. I think that the combination of a government clearing > house for small employers and individuals along with a federal > exemption similar to ERISA would provide a bsais for the capacity to > create a more portable system. Any person teminated could gain access > through the clearing house and any person changing employers would > have the same capacity. It would eliminate much of the need for > insurers to have pre-existing condition clauses because the size of > the group would be large enough to limit the risk of adverse > selection. > > On Aug 5, 10:46 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Richard, > > > That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do not believe we > > have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or germany or > > the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been doing this for > > years, carefully examine the systems or several of the nations that > > seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the best ideas > > from each of them and adopt them to our own country. There is, I > > believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing only, that > > would help a great deal is to not link health insurance to one’s > > employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain the same > > insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to employer > > without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a county, state, > > whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance companies to > > insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just those not > > already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out some sort of > > interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have safeguards in > > place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING else. Fund it > > by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure there will be > > administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the administrative > > expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed (hopefully) the > > interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set a goodly > > portion of those administrative costs. > > that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top of my head. > > > And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive bids for all > > the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list of approved > > suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best price. if > > Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? Well to bad, > > guess some other drug store will get all the medicare business. Hell, > > how many people would start a drug store just to have all the medicare/ > > medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state? > > > And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your thinking, and > > that’s more than i can say for most people here and in our government. > > > On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > Hollywood – > > > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an > > > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it > > > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your > > > reply. > > > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), > > > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following: > > > > First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group > > > and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to > > > obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to > > > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much > > > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state > > > laws and thus make > > > them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition > > > and reduce prices. > > > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a > > > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing > > > the “Cadillac policies”. > > > > Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have > > > catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can > > > self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against > > > the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers. > > > > It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would > > > understand it and it would > > > actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to > > > ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I > > > recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to > > > limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add > > > value. > > > > Please let me know what you think of the ideas. > > > > On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Richard, > > > > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > > > > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > > > > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > > > > universal health care for their citizens? > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > > > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > > > > you. Do you think that the federal government will more efficiently > > > > > administer the healthcare in our country? > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > > > > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off people,if the > > > > > > suppliers of those car dealers and manufacturers and banks lay off > > > > > > people whose money do you think will be used to pay for unemployment > > > > > > checks, food stamps if they need it, etc? > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:42 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > > > No kidding. I’m willing to bet I can drive the sales up on just about > > > > > > > anything by offering to help pay for it with someone else’s money. > > > > > > > What’s the point? > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:49 pm, Mark wrote: > > > > > > > > > auto sales are up over 25% in europe under an identical program….it is > > > > > > > > working > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:37 PM, VT VirtualTruth > > > > > > > >
wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I got news for you, the fact that the program was depletedr an identical > > > > > > > > > program….it is working. > > > > > > > > > so quickly shows there was a need and as a stimulus > > > > > > > > > the earnings numbers for the auto industry says > > > > > > > > > it worked. > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:17 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Doc, > > > > > > > > > > > You and VT should take the advice of Senato sales or Schumer ( > > > > > > > > > D-NY ) > > > > > > > > > > who said of the cash for clunkers program ” don’t fix what ain’t broke > > > > > > > > > > ” . Health Care ain’t broken , it just needs a little adjustment, but > > > > > > > > > > guys like Obama and his ilk want to crush it ! > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:00 pm, DOC828NDF wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm…. I would love to agree with you, but the Republicans may be > > > > > > > > > > > onto something when they say “what’s the rush”… I mean, for > > > > > > > > > > > example… What if we were to rush into a war without thinking it > > > > > > > > > > > through? No diplomacy, and no planning… What if something goes wrong > > > > > > > > > > > and its not as easy as we initially thought? Do we really have aan > > > > > > > > > > > exit strategy? We need to take some time to think this thing through. > > > > > > > > > > > After all, its not like anyone’s dying for healthcare > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 3:58 pm, VT Sean Lewis
wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > > > > > > > > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > > > > > > > > > > > destruction of the American dream. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > August 3, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Republicans! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > > > > > > > > > > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > > > > > > > > > > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > > > > > > > > > > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > > > > > > > > > > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The country was on the brink of complete collapse > > > > > > > > > > > > the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An > > > > > > > > > > > > Administration and party that was in complete > > > > > > > > > > > > denial there was a problem with the economy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion > > > > > > > > > > > > in a single quarter that saved the > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
I am trying to keep an open mind about this and look for the good ideas imbedded in the proposals. I am not very excited about HR 3200, but the one idea they have correct is the Health Insurance Exchange. The problem is that they take it too far. There is no need to do that. Feel free to challenge me on my ideas, as I can only improve them with input from other people with open minds about the topic. I am not opposed to good reform, but I really do not think that HR 3200 is the answer.
On Aug 5, 10:55 pm, Hollywood wrote: > Richard, > > Very good idea. > > On Aug 5, 10:53 pm, RichardForbes > wrote: > > > > > We have attempted to make our pension benefits portable. The same > > idea is important for healthcare, though the implementation is a bit > > different. I think that the combination of a government clearing > > house for small employers and individuals along with a federal > > exemption similar to ERISA would provide a bsais for the capacity to > > create a more portable system. Any person teminated could gain access > > through the clearing house and any person changing employers would > > have the same capacity. It would eliminate much of the need for > > insurers to have pre-existing condition clauses because the size of > > the group would be large enough to limit the risk of adverse > > selection. > > > On Aug 5, 10:46 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > > That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do not believe we > > > have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or germany or > > > the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been doing this for > > > years, carefully examine the systems or several of the nations that > > > seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the best ideas > > > from each of them and adopt them to our own country. There is, I > > > believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing only, that > > > would help a great deal is to not link health insurance to one’s > > > employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain the same > > > insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to employer > > > without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a county, state, > > > whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance companies to > > > insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just those not > > > already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out some sort of > > > interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have safeguards in > > > place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING else. Fund it > > > by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure there will be > > > administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the administrative > > > expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed (hopefully) the > > > interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set a goodly > > > portion of those administrative costs. > > > that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top of my head. > > > > And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive bids for all > > > the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list of approved > > > suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best price. if > > > Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? Well to bad, > > > guess some other drug store will get all the medicare business. Hell, > > > how many people would start a drug store just to have all the medicare/ > > > medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state? > > > > And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your thinking, and > > > that’s more than i can say for most people here and in our government. > > > > On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an > > > > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it > > > > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your > > > > reply. > > > > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), > > > > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following: > > > > > First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group > > > > and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to > > > > obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to > > > > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much > > > > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > > > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state > > > > laws and thus make > > > > them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition > > > > and reduce prices. > > > > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a > > > > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing > > > > the “Cadillac policies”. > > > > > Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have > > > > catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can > > > > self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against > > > > the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers. > > > > > It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would > > > > understand it and it would > > > > actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to > > > > ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I > > > > recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to > > > > limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add > > > > value. > > > > > Please let me know what you think of the ideas. > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > > > > > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > > > > > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > > > > > universal health care for their citizens? > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > > > > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > > > > > you. Do you think that the federal government will more efficiently > > > > > > administer the healthcare in our country? > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > > > > > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off people,if the > > > > > > > suppliers of those car dealers and manufacturers and banks lay off > > > > > > > people whose money do you think will be used to pay for unemployment > > > > > > > checks, food stamps if they need it, etc? > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:42 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > > > > No kidding. I’m willing to bet I can drive the sales up on just about > > > > > > > > anything by offering to help pay for it with someone else’s money. > > > > > > > > What’s the point? > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:49 pm, Mark wrote: > > > > > > > > > > auto sales are up over 25% in europe under an identical program….it is > > > > > > > > > working > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:37 PM, VT VirtualTruth > > > > > > > > >
wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I got news for you, the fact that the program was depletedr an identical > > > > > > > > > > program….it is working. > > > > > > > > > > so quickly shows there was a need and as a stimulus > > > > > > > > > > the earnings numbers for the auto industry says > > > > > > > > > > it worked. > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:17 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Doc, > > > > > > > > > > > > You and VT should take the advice of Senato sales or Schumer ( > > > > > > > > > > D-NY ) > > > > > > > > > > > who said of the cash for clunkers program ” don’t fix what ain’t broke > > > > > > > > > > > ” . Health Care ain’t broken , it just needs a little adjustment, but > > > > > > > > > > > guys like Obama and his ilk want to crush it ! > > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:00 pm, DOC828NDF wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm…. I would love to agree with you, but the Republicans may be > > > > > > > > > > > > onto something when they say “what’s the rush”… I mean, for > > > > > > > > > > > > example… What if we were to rush into a war without thinking it > > > > > > > > > > > > through? No diplomacy, and no planning… What if something goes wrong > > > > > > > > > > > > and its not as easy as we initially thought? Do we really have aan > > > > > > > > > > > > exit strategy? We need to take some time to think this thing through. > > > > > > > > > > > > After all, its not like anyone’s dying for healthcare > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 3:58 pm, VT Sean Lewis
wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > > > > > > > > > > > > destruction of the American dream. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > > August 3, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Republicans! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > > > > > > > > > > > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > > > > > > > > > > > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
Richard,
Frankly, I’ll have to pull up HR 3200 and examine it closer before i can make an objective and informed comment on it’s contents. To date I’ve only read what others CLAIM it contains.
On Aug 5, 11:14 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > I am trying to keep an open mind about this and look for the good > ideas imbedded in the proposals. I am not very excited about HR 3200, > but the one idea they have correct is the Health Insurance Exchange. > The problem is that they take it too far. There is no need to do > that. Feel free to challenge me on my ideas, as I can only improve > them with input from other people with open minds about the topic. I > am not opposed to good reform, but I really do not think that HR 3200 > is the answer. > > On Aug 5, 10:55 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Richard, > > > Very good idea. > > > On Aug 5, 10:53 pm, RichardForbes > > wrote: > > > > We have attempted to make our pension benefits portable. The same > > > idea is important for healthcare, though the implementation is a bit > > > different. I think that the combination of a government clearing > > > house for small employers and individuals along with a federal > > > exemption similar to ERISA would provide a bsais for the capacity to > > > create a more portable system. Any person teminated could gain access > > > through the clearing house and any person changing employers would > > > have the same capacity. It would eliminate much of the need for > > > insurers to have pre-existing condition clauses because the size of > > > the group would be large enough to limit the risk of adverse > > > selection. > > > > On Aug 5, 10:46 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Richard, > > > > > That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do not believe we > > > > have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or germany or > > > > the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been doing this for > > > > years, carefully examine the systems or several of the nations that > > > > seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the best ideas > > > > from each of them and adopt them to our own country. There is, I > > > > believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing only, that > > > > would help a great deal is to not link health insurance to one’s > > > > employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain the same > > > > insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to employer > > > > without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a county, state, > > > > whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance companies to > > > > insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just those not > > > > already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out some sort of > > > > interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have safeguards in > > > > place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING else. Fund it > > > > by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure there will be > > > > administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the administrative > > > > expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed (hopefully) the > > > > interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set a goodly > > > > portion of those administrative costs. > > > > that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top of my head. > > > > > And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive bids for all > > > > the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list of approved > > > > suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best price. if > > > > Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? Well to bad, > > > > guess some other drug store will get all the medicare business. Hell, > > > > how many people would start a drug store just to have all the medicare/ > > > > medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state? > > > > > And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your thinking, and > > > > that’s more than i can say for most people here and in our government. > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an > > > > > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it > > > > > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your > > > > > reply. > > > > > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), > > > > > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following: > > > > > > First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group > > > > > and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to > > > > > obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to > > > > > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much > > > > > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > > > > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state > > > > > laws and thus make > > > > > them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition > > > > > and reduce prices. > > > > > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a > > > > > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing > > > > > the “Cadillac policies”. > > > > > > Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have > > > > > catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can > > > > > self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against > > > > > the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers. > > > > > > It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would > > > > > understand it and it would > > > > > actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to > > > > > ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I > > > > > recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to > > > > > limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add > > > > > value. > > > > > > Please let me know what you think of the ideas. > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > > > > > > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > > > > > > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > > > > > > universal health care for their citizens? > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > > > > > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > > > > > > you. Do you think that the federal government will more efficiently > > > > > > > administer the healthcare in our country? > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > > > > > > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off people,if the > > > > > > > > suppliers of those car dealers and manufacturers and banks lay off > > > > > > > > people whose money do you think will be used to pay for unemployment > > > > > > > > checks, food stamps if they need it, etc? > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:42 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > > > > > No kidding. I’m willing to bet I can drive the sales up on just about > > > > > > > > > anything by offering to help pay for it with someone else’s money. > > > > > > > > > What’s the point? > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:49 pm, Mark wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > auto sales are up over 25% in europe under an identical program….it is > > > > > > > > > > working > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:37 PM, VT VirtualTruth > > > > > > > > > >
wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I got news for you, the fact that the program was depletedr an identical > > > > > > > > > > > program….it is working. > > > > > > > > > > > so quickly shows there was a need and as a stimulus > > > > > > > > > > > the earnings numbers for the auto industry says > > > > > > > > > > > it worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:17 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Doc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > You and VT should take the advice of Senato sales or Schumer ( > > > > > > > > > > > D-NY ) > > > > > > > > > > > > who said of the cash for clunkers program ” don’t fix what ain’t broke > > > > > > > > > > > > ” . Health Care ain’t broken , it just needs a little adjustment, but > > > > > > > > > > > > guys like Obama and his ilk want to crush it ! > > > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:00 pm, DOC828NDF wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm…. I would love to agree with you, but the Republicans may be > > > > > > > > > > > > > onto something when they say “what’s the rush”… I mean, for > > > > > > > > > > > > > example… What if we were to rush into a war without thinking it > > > > > > > > > > > > > through? No diplomacy, and no planning… What if something goes wrong > > > > > > > > > > > > > and its not as easy as we initially thought? Do we really have aan > > > > > > > > > > > > > exit strategy? We need to take some time to think this thing through. > > > > > > > > > > > > > After all, its not like anyone’s dying for healthcare > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 3, 3:58 pm, VT Sean Lewis
wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
Holly ,
When you get to page 58, see how the government will have direct access to your bank account. My insurance company does not have access to my account!
*************************************************************************************************************
On Aug 6, 12:23 am, Hollywood wrote: > Richard, > > Frankly, I’ll have to pull up HR 3200 and examine it closer before i > can make an objective and informed comment on it’s contents. To date > I’ve only read what others CLAIM it contains. > > On Aug 5, 11:14 pm, RichardForbes > wrote: > > > > > I am trying to keep an open mind about this and look for the good > > ideas imbedded in the proposals. I am not very excited about HR 3200, > > but the one idea they have correct is the Health Insurance Exchange. > > The problem is that they take it too far. There is no need to do > > that. Feel free to challenge me on my ideas, as I can only improve > > them with input from other people with open minds about the topic. I > > am not opposed to good reform, but I really do not think that HR 3200 > > is the answer. > > > On Aug 5, 10:55 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > > Very good idea. > > > > On Aug 5, 10:53 pm, RichardForbes > > > wrote: > > > > > We have attempted to make our pension benefits portable. The same > > > > idea is important for healthcare, though the implementation is a bit > > > > different. I think that the combination of a government clearing > > > > house for small employers and individuals along with a federal > > > > exemption similar to ERISA would provide a bsais for the capacity to > > > > create a more portable system. Any person teminated could gain access > > > > through the clearing house and any person changing employers would > > > > have the same capacity. It would eliminate much of the need for > > > > insurers to have pre-existing condition clauses because the size of > > > > the group would be large enough to limit the risk of adverse > > > > selection. > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:46 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do not believe we > > > > > have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or germany or > > > > > the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been doing this for > > > > > years, carefully examine the systems or several of the nations that > > > > > seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the best ideas > > > > > from each of them and adopt them to our own country. There is, I > > > > > believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing only, that > > > > > would help a great deal is to not link health insurance to one’s > > > > > employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain the same > > > > > insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to employer > > > > > without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a county, state, > > > > > whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance companies to > > > > > insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just those not > > > > > already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out some sort of > > > > > interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have safeguards in > > > > > place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING else. Fund it > > > > > by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure there will be > > > > > administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the administrative > > > > > expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed (hopefully) the > > > > > interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set a goodly > > > > > portion of those administrative costs. > > > > > that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top of my head. > > > > > > And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive bids for all > > > > > the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list of approved > > > > > suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best price. if > > > > > Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? Well to bad, > > > > > guess some other drug store will get all the medicare business. Hell, > > > > > how many people would start a drug store just to have all the medicare/ > > > > > medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state? > > > > > > And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your thinking, and > > > > > that’s more than i can say for most people here and in our government. > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an > > > > > > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it > > > > > > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your > > > > > > reply. > > > > > > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), > > > > > > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following: > > > > > > > First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group > > > > > > and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to > > > > > > obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to > > > > > > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much > > > > > > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > > > > > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state > > > > > > laws and thus make > > > > > > them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition > > > > > > and reduce prices. > > > > > > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a > > > > > > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing > > > > > > the “Cadillac policies”. > > > > > > > Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have > > > > > > catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can > > > > > > self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against > > > > > > the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers. > > > > > > > It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would > > > > > > understand it and it would > > > > > > actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to > > > > > > ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I > > > > > > recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to > > > > > > limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add > > > > > > value. > > > > > > > Please let me know what you think of the ideas. > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > > > > > > > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > > > > > > > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > > > > > > > universal health care for their citizens? > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > > > > > > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > > > > > > > you. Do you think that the federal government will more efficiently > > > > > > > > administer the healthcare in our country? > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > > > > > > > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off people,if the > > > > > > > > > suppliers of those car dealers and manufacturers and banks lay off > > > > > > > > > people whose money do you think will be used to pay for unemployment > > > > > > > > > checks, food stamps if they need it, etc? > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:42 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > > > > > > No kidding. I’m willing to bet I can drive the sales up on just about > > > > > > > > > > anything by offering to help pay for it with someone else’s money. > > > > > > > > > > What’s the point? > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:49 pm, Mark wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > auto sales are up over 25% in europe under an identical program….it is > > > > > > > > > > > working > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:37 PM, VT VirtualTruth > > > > > > > > > > >
wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got news for you, the fact that the program was depletedr an identical > > > > > > > > > > > > program….it is working. > > > > > > > > > > > > so quickly shows there was a need and as a stimulus > > > > > > > > > > > > the earnings numbers for the auto industry says > > > > > > > > > > > > it worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:17 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You and VT should take the advice of Senato sales or Schumer ( > > > > > > > > > > > > D-NY ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > who said of the cash for clunkers program ” don’t fix what ain’t broke > > > > > > > > > > > > > ” . Health Care ain’t broken , it just needs a little adjustment, but > > > > > > > > > > > > > guys like Obama and his ilk want to crush it ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:00 pm, DOC828NDF wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm…. I would love to agree with you, but the Republicans may be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > onto something when they say “what’s the rush”… I mean, for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example… What if we were to rush into a war without thinking it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through? No diplomacy, and no planning… What if > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
you statist whores aren’t the American dream
you are cheerleaders for the tax predator ruling class
we hate you
we will see your leaders heads in the guillotine and you stripped of the property you looted from us and then you exiled from the country for your crimes
because you are parasites and deserve your fate as vermin
On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 7:23 PM, VT VirtualTruthwrote:
Hollywood -
Enjoy the reading. It is not the most exciting draft ever proposed. A couple things to note. First, it is structured in a way similar to ERISA. This was intentional for a couple of reasons and in some ways that is a good thing. Focus on the “healthcare exchange program” as it is one of the good ideas in the bill. Then, look at some of the mandated provisions. Some are quite scary, particularly the end of life counseling and the mandatory movement to the public option if you change jobs. Finally, think about how the program will be subsidized and really concentrate on whether private plans will be able compete in the long-term. Not all goals of the program are explicit and some are buried deeply in the details.
On Aug 5, 11:23 pm, Hollywood wrote: > Richard, > > Frankly, I’ll have to pull up HR 3200 and examine it closer before i > can make an objective and informed comment on it’s contents. To date > I’ve only read what others CLAIM it contains. > > On Aug 5, 11:14 pm, RichardForbes > wrote: > > > > > I am trying to keep an open mind about this and look for the good > > ideas imbedded in the proposals. I am not very excited about HR 3200, > > but the one idea they have correct is the Health Insurance Exchange. > > The problem is that they take it too far. There is no need to do > > that. Feel free to challenge me on my ideas, as I can only improve > > them with input from other people with open minds about the topic. I > > am not opposed to good reform, but I really do not think that HR 3200 > > is the answer. > > > On Aug 5, 10:55 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > > Very good idea. > > > > On Aug 5, 10:53 pm, RichardForbes > > > wrote: > > > > > We have attempted to make our pension benefits portable. The same > > > > idea is important for healthcare, though the implementation is a bit > > > > different. I think that the combination of a government clearing > > > > house for small employers and individuals along with a federal > > > > exemption similar to ERISA would provide a bsais for the capacity to > > > > create a more portable system. Any person teminated could gain access > > > > through the clearing house and any person changing employers would > > > > have the same capacity. It would eliminate much of the need for > > > > insurers to have pre-existing condition clauses because the size of > > > > the group would be large enough to limit the risk of adverse > > > > selection. > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:46 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do not believe we > > > > > have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or germany or > > > > > the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been doing this for > > > > > years, carefully examine the systems or several of the nations that > > > > > seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the best ideas > > > > > from each of them and adopt them to our own country. There is, I > > > > > believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing only, that > > > > > would help a great deal is to not link health insurance to one’s > > > > > employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain the same > > > > > insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to employer > > > > > without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a county, state, > > > > > whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance companies to > > > > > insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just those not > > > > > already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out some sort of > > > > > interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have safeguards in > > > > > place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING else. Fund it > > > > > by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure there will be > > > > > administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the administrative > > > > > expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed (hopefully) the > > > > > interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set a goodly > > > > > portion of those administrative costs. > > > > > that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top of my head. > > > > > > And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive bids for all > > > > > the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list of approved > > > > > suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best price. if > > > > > Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? Well to bad, > > > > > guess some other drug store will get all the medicare business. Hell, > > > > > how many people would start a drug store just to have all the medicare/ > > > > > medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state? > > > > > > And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your thinking, and > > > > > that’s more than i can say for most people here and in our government. > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an > > > > > > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it > > > > > > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your > > > > > > reply. > > > > > > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), > > > > > > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following: > > > > > > > First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group > > > > > > and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to > > > > > > obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to > > > > > > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much > > > > > > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > > > > > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state > > > > > > laws and thus make > > > > > > them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition > > > > > > and reduce prices. > > > > > > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a > > > > > > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing > > > > > > the “Cadillac policies”. > > > > > > > Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have > > > > > > catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can > > > > > > self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against > > > > > > the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers. > > > > > > > It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would > > > > > > understand it and it would > > > > > > actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to > > > > > > ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I > > > > > > recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to > > > > > > limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add > > > > > > value. > > > > > > > Please let me know what you think of the ideas. > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > > > > > > > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > > > > > > > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > > > > > > > universal health care for their citizens? > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > > > > > > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > > > > > > > you. Do you think that the federal government will more efficiently > > > > > > > > administer the healthcare in our country? > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > > > > > > > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off people,if the > > > > > > > > > suppliers of those car dealers and manufacturers and banks lay off > > > > > > > > > people whose money do you think will be used to pay for unemployment > > > > > > > > > checks, food stamps if they need it, etc? > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:42 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > > > > > > No kidding. I’m willing to bet I can drive the sales up on just about > > > > > > > > > > anything by offering to help pay for it with someone else’s money. > > > > > > > > > > What’s the point? > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:49 pm, Mark wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > auto sales are up over 25% in europe under an identical program….it is > > > > > > > > > > > working > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:37 PM, VT VirtualTruth > > > > > > > > > > >
wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got news for you, the fact that the program was depletedr an identical > > > > > > > > > > > > program….it is working. > > > > > > > > > > > > so quickly shows there was a need and as a stimulus > > > > > > > > > > > > the earnings numbers for the auto industry says > > > > > > > > > > > > it worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:17 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You and VT should take the advice of Senato sales or Schumer ( > > > > > > > > > > > > D-NY ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > who said of the cash for clunkers program ” don’t fix what ain’t broke > > > > > > > > > > > > > ” . Health Care ain’t broken , it just needs a little adjustment, but > > > > > > > > > > > > > guys like Obama and his ilk want to crush it ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > ******************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:00 pm, DOC828NDF wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm…. I would love to agree with you, but the Republicans may be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > onto something when they say “what’s the rush”… I mean, for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > example… What if we were to rush into a war without thinking it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > through? No diplomacy, and no planning… What if > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
Obama’s Approval Rating Drops on Health Care, Economy Concerns Share | Email< ?Subject=Bloomberg%20news:%20%20Obama%E2%80%99s%20Approval%20Rating%20Drops%20on%20Health%20Care,%20Economy%20Concerns%20&body=%20Obama%E2%80%99s%20Approval%20Rating%20Drops%20on%20Health%20Care,%20Economy%20Concerns%20%0D%0A%0D%0A%20http%3A//www.bloomberg.com/apps/news%3Fpid%3Demail_en%26sid%3DakA7XABFTuSs>| Print | A A A
By Kristin Jensen
Aug. 6 (Bloomberg) — President Barack Obama’s approval rating is falling amid concerns about the U.S. economy and his push to revamp the U.S. health-care system, a Quinnipiac University poll shows.
Exactly half of the registered voters surveyed from July 27 to Aug. 3 by Quinnipiac
Americans are upset about rising unemployment and worried that health-care plans making their way through Congress will add to the U.S. budget deficit, said Peter Brown , assistant director of the Hamden, Connecticut-based polling institute. The combination has helped drive down the president’s ratings.
A “willingness to give him the benefit of the doubt is, among some voters, evaporating,” Brown told reporters in Washington yesterday.
The poll found that voters disapprove of the way Obama is handling the economy by 49 percent to 45 percent. On his effort to overhaul of the health-care system, 52 percent disapprove of his handling of the issue while 39 percent approve.
Only foreign policy offered a bright spot: 52 percent of poll respondents approved of his job on this front, compared with 38 percent who disapproved.
Quinnipiac took the poll in the middle of a controversy over Obama’s remarks about the arrest of Harvard University scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. Gates, who is black, was arrested on a disorderly conduct charge after a confrontation at his home in Cambridge, Massachusetts, with a white police officer.
Obama, asked about the incident during a July 22 news conference, said police “acted stupidly” in making the arrest. In the poll, voters by 49 percent to 33 percent said Obama acted “stupidly” when he waded into the matter. Even so, 55 percent said they approved of the way Obama is handling race relations.
The poll surveyed 2,409 registered voters nationwide and has a margin of error of plus or minus 2 percentage points.
To contact the reporter on this story: Kristin Jensenin Washington at kjensen@bloomberg.net
On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:14 AM, Bruce Majors wrote:
VT Redistribution of wealth? You mean taking trillions from working class Americans and giving it to the Wealthiest Americans in ill conceived and vote buying tax cuts during war time?
MJ Allowing People to RETAIN their money is NOT a ‘redistribution’.
Regard$,
The same could be asked of ALL of US! The real question is WTF is wrong with our government and HOW we can COME TOGETHER as A UNITED PEOPLE to REPAIR what is broken?? Left wing, right wing, if you read ALL sources, even off shore news and reports, you will have a better understanding of others views, as well as a better understanding of what is *really* going on with our global situations…but some seem to WANT to be good lil sheeple and follow the sound of the golden flute….straight to the slaughter house.
Left wing this, right wing that….that’s bullshit all the way around….NO matter which party is elected, it’s the same ole bullshit! Reform is needed, but with less government, IMO.
)
On Aug 5, 12:41 pm, Hollywood wrote: > Sage2, > > Well no fucking shit genius. You do what you want and I’ll do what I > want. WTF is wrong with you? > > On Aug 5, 11:36 am, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > Holly, > > > You won’t be able to do shit for either you or your > > family if the intruder shoots you first! I can see you risking your > > worthless life but what about your family. Are you willing to take the > > gamble? The odds are against you . Think about it! If you have the > > mental capacity to do so! Proportion plays no part when your family > > is in imminent danger. Intruder should noy be there in the first > > place. > > > *********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > > > On Aug 5, 12:14 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > frankg, > > > > You are absolutely nuts if you think I’m going to sit here all day and > > > discuss what is fair or not, what is stealing and what is not. If > > > that is NOT the point then don’t ask me what I’d do if the govt. came > > > to steal my house. You do not seem to understand the concept of > > > proportion, or balance or even the common sense of choosing one fights > > > carefully. > > > It’s like this, I believe I have a right to defend my life and > > > property. Ok? Regarding proportional response, am I going to kill a > > > person if he comes into my home and steals my microwave and TV? NO, > > > that’s just stuff and is insured anyway, a human life is more > > > valuable. If that same person approaches me with a weapon during the > > > very same incident? Yep, going to blow his head off with my Mossberg. > > > I value MY life more than His. proportional response. > > > Where did you sign up to pay for the invasion of Iraq? Do you not > > > understand the govt. is pretty much going to spend your money any > > > fucking way it pleases and that it has pretty much always been that > > > way? What is it with you people wanting to pretend the Federal Govt. > > > and all it’s faults was just invented 6 months ago? Are you all crazy? > > > > I’ll draw MY line where I need to, you draws yours as you see fit. > > > Don’t tell me where to draw MY line. > > > > On Aug 5, 10:27 am, frankg wrote: > > > > > Hell yeah, and you know… I’m going to be by your side supporting and > > > > cheering you on the entire way. > > > > > But isn’t that the point; the idea of ’stealing’ from you that which > > > > is yours so that it can be given to others without your approval is > > > > UNacceptable and you will defend it. Sometimes we just can’t follow > > > > our Dad’s advice about acceptance. > > > > > So why do you feel it’s acceptable to defend your property (your home) > > > > from being unfairly taken yet I must accept my property (my income) > > > > being taken unfairly? Where are you drawing the line? You can make a > > > > case I have a moral obligation to pay taxes that will help the needy > > > > with food, housing and health care, and I can accept that. But where > > > > did I ever sign up to start bailing out companies that can’t run > > > > competitively? Where did I ever sign up to start helping my neighbors > > > > buy new cars? In my opinion our Government has crossed WAY over the > > > > line and I am no longer willing to simply accept it as unfair. > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:30 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > Any city, state or federal govt. employee that shows up to take my > > > > > home from me without due cause is going to get shot right between the > > > > > eyes. > > > > > > Now, is THAT direct and simple enough for you to understand? > > > > > > On Aug 5, 12:31 am, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > I have no idea but then, that’s not what I said. > > > > > > > The point I made was; > > > > > > > Government reaches into my pocket to help buy itself a majority shares > > > > > > in GM. I don’t benefit from this and I’m sure you’d say “life isn’t > > > > > > fair” > > > > > > Government reaches into my pocket to help hand out up to $4500 to > > > > > > people who own ‘clunkers’. I don’t benefit from this and have to pay > > > > > > full price for a car. You say “life isn’t fair” > > > > > > Government reaches into my pocket to help hand out TAP money to > > > > > > college students. My daughter doesn’t qualify and have to pay her full > > > > > > tuition out of pocket. I’m sure you’d say “life isn’t fair”. (this > > > > > > was a new point, I was on a roll). > > > > > > > So I throw at you an admittedly inflated but definitely consistent > > > > > > with the theme scenario; > > > > > > > Government steps in and takes away your home to help fund low income > > > > > > housing. You don’t qualify so must pay full price for a new home. I > > > > > > say “life isn’t fair”. > > > > > > > Do you agree that it’s all just a matter of life being unfair or would > > > > > > you feel compelled to rise up and stop what government was doing? > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 11:37 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > Frankg, > > > > > > > > Who’s having cars taken away from them by the govt.? > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 5:58 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hollywood, > > > > > > > > > I too learned that lesson at an early age, but there are limits to my > > > > > > > > acceptance. I’m willing to bet that if the government decided they > > > > > > > > were going to step in and take away your home you would not simply > > > > > > > > stand by and think “damn, this is rather unfair…. but OK”. > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 6:30 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > frankg.. > > > > > > > > > My late father once told me that life is not always fair. i was simply > > > > > > > > > crushed by that notion. Of course i was only six years old at the > > > > > > > > > time. At age 60 I’ve learned a level of acceptance. I’d like to > > > > > > > > > suggest you do the same. > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 5:26 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood, > > > > > > > > > > > So the buyer who trades in a ‘clunker’ wins; the auto dealers get more > > > > > > > > > > business and win; car manufacturers and their employees win; the auto > > > > > > > > > > suppliers and their employee win; everybody wins….. except me. > > > > > > > > > > > I don’t have a clunker that qualifies, so as usual, I qualify to pay > > > > > > > > > > for a government program, but I don’t qualify to receive from it. > > > > > > > > > > > I’m also thinking there’s something fundamentally wrong when the > > > > > > > > > > government assumes majority control of a company via my tax dollars, > > > > > > > > > > and then drives that company’s sales up by giving more of my tax > > > > > > > > > > dollars to others so they can purchase products from the company the > > > > > > > > > > government just ‘bought’. > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 4:01 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > dick, > > > > > > > > > > > > What happens when car dealers can sell more cars than they would have > > > > > > > > > > > w/o the “clunker” program? They keep their doors open and move > > > > > > > > > > > inventory. > > > > > > > > > > > What happens when car dealers move more inventory? Maybe car > > > > > > > > > > > manufacturers can stay open and/or nit have to lay off people. > > > > > > > > > > > What happens when car manufacturers stay open and/or keep up > > > > > > > > > > > production? The thousands of companies that supply these car > > > > > > > > > > > manufacturers mabybe stay open and/or don’t have to lay off more > > > > > > > > > > > people. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:55 pm, dick thompson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > What can be parted out? They put sodium silicate in the block which > > > > > > > > > > > > destroys the mechanicals totally. You might get some body parts but no > > > > > > > > > > > > engine parts. The answer is the US taxpayer takes it in the ass on both > > > > > > > > > > > > sides of the deal at once. Aren’t you glad the vote last fall went the > > > > > > > > > > > > way it did. The country is in the best of hands, so they say. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will the government owned(?) gas guzzlers that are traded in actually > > > > > > > > > > > > > be crushed or will they be sold out of country at a profit ?? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If they are crushed who gets the salvage money, if they are > > > > > > > > > > > > > partsed out who gets the dough, if they are sold who gets that > > > > > > > > > > > > > money… or does the US taxpayer simply take it in the ass on both > > > > > > > > > > > > > sides of the deal once again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Any of the three represents substantial cash. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Sage2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You and VT should take the advice of Senator Schumer ( D-NY ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > who said of the cash for clunkers program ” don’t fix what ain’t broke > > > > > > > > > > > > > ” . Health Care ain’t broken , it just needs a little adjustment, but > > > > > > > > > > > > > guys like Obama and his ilk want to crush it ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -… > > read more »
Sage2,
“The Govt.” already HAS direct acess to your bank account and has for years. Ask anyone that has had accounts seized by the IRS. You didn’t know this?
On Aug 6, 1:15 am, Sage2 wrote: > Holly , > > When you get to page 58, see how the government > will have direct access to your bank account. My insurance company > does not have access to my account! > > ************************************************************************************************************* > > On Aug 6, 12:23 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Richard, > > > Frankly, I’ll have to pull up HR 3200 and examine it closer before i > > can make an objective and informed comment on it’s contents. To date > > I’ve only read what others CLAIM it contains. > > > On Aug 5, 11:14 pm, RichardForbes > > wrote: > > > > I am trying to keep an open mind about this and look for the good > > > ideas imbedded in the proposals. I am not very excited about HR 3200, > > > but the one idea they have correct is the Health Insurance Exchange. > > > The problem is that they take it too far. There is no need to do > > > that. Feel free to challenge me on my ideas, as I can only improve > > > them with input from other people with open minds about the topic. I > > > am not opposed to good reform, but I really do not think that HR 3200 > > > is the answer. > > > > On Aug 5, 10:55 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Richard, > > > > > Very good idea. > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:53 pm, RichardForbes > > > > wrote: > > > > > > We have attempted to make our pension benefits portable. The same > > > > > idea is important for healthcare, though the implementation is a bit > > > > > different. I think that the combination of a government clearing > > > > > house for small employers and individuals along with a federal > > > > > exemption similar to ERISA would provide a bsais for the capacity to > > > > > create a more portable system. Any person teminated could gain access > > > > > through the clearing house and any person changing employers would > > > > > have the same capacity. It would eliminate much of the need for > > > > > insurers to have pre-existing condition clauses because the size of > > > > > the group would be large enough to limit the risk of adverse > > > > > selection. > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:46 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do not believe we > > > > > > have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or germany or > > > > > > the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been doing this for > > > > > > years, carefully examine the systems or several of the nations that > > > > > > seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the best ideas > > > > > > from each of them and adopt them to our own country. There is, I > > > > > > believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing only, that > > > > > > would help a great deal is to not link health insurance to one’s > > > > > > employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain the same > > > > > > insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to employer > > > > > > without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a county, state, > > > > > > whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance companies to > > > > > > insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just those not > > > > > > already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out some sort of > > > > > > interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have safeguards in > > > > > > place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING else. Fund it > > > > > > by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure there will be > > > > > > administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the administrative > > > > > > expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed (hopefully) the > > > > > > interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set a goodly > > > > > > portion of those administrative costs. > > > > > > that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top of my head. > > > > > > > And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive bids for all > > > > > > the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list of approved > > > > > > suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best price. if > > > > > > Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? Well to bad, > > > > > > guess some other drug store will get all the medicare business. Hell, > > > > > > how many people would start a drug store just to have all the medicare/ > > > > > > medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state? > > > > > > > And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your thinking, and > > > > > > that’s more than i can say for most people here and in our government. > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an > > > > > > > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it > > > > > > > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your > > > > > > > reply. > > > > > > > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), > > > > > > > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following: > > > > > > > > First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group > > > > > > > and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to > > > > > > > obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to > > > > > > > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much > > > > > > > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > > > > > > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state > > > > > > > laws and thus make > > > > > > > them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition > > > > > > > and reduce prices. > > > > > > > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a > > > > > > > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing > > > > > > > the “Cadillac policies”. > > > > > > > > Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have > > > > > > > catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can > > > > > > > self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against > > > > > > > the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers. > > > > > > > > It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would > > > > > > > understand it and it would > > > > > > > actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to > > > > > > > ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I > > > > > > > recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to > > > > > > > limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add > > > > > > > value. > > > > > > > > Please let me know what you think of the ideas. > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > > > > > > > > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > > > > > > > > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > > > > > > > > universal health care for their citizens? > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > > > > > > > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > > > > > > > > you. Do you think that the federal government will more efficiently > > > > > > > > > administer the healthcare in our country? > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > > > > > > > > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off people,if the > > > > > > > > > > suppliers of those car dealers and manufacturers and banks lay off > > > > > > > > > > people whose money do you think will be used to pay for unemployment > > > > > > > > > > checks, food stamps if they need it, etc? > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:42 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > > > > > > > No kidding. I’m willing to bet I can drive the sales up on just about > > > > > > > > > > > anything by offering to help pay for it with someone else’s money. > > > > > > > > > > > What’s the point? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:49 pm, Mark wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > auto sales are up over 25% in europe under an identical program….it is > > > > > > > > > > > > working > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:37 PM, VT VirtualTruth > > > > > > > > > > > >
wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got news for you, the fact that the program was depletedr an identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > program….it is working. > > > > > > > > > > > > > so quickly shows there was a need and as a stimulus > > > > > > > > > > > > > the earnings numbers for the auto industry says > > > > > > > > > > > > > it worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:17 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You and VT should take the advice of Senato sales or Schumer ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > D-NY ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who said of the cash for clunkers program ” don’t fix what ain’t broke > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ” . Health Care ain’t broken , it just needs a little adjustment, but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guys like Obama and his ilk want to crush it ! > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
Hollywood “The Govt.” already HAS direct acess to your bank account and has for years. Ask anyone that has had accounts seized by the IRS. You didn’t know this? MJ Yep … STOLEN … no ‘due process’, no nothing.
Regard$,
Holly,
Only by legal action and garnishing wages for tax purposes, not direct deposit style where they would take ( steal ) at will without accountability. You your ilk and the PIMP ( president in my pocket ) are going to hit a brick wall on this one. Time to wake up before you guys hit that wall!
****************************************************************************************************************************
On Aug 6, 11:16 am, Hollywood wrote: > Sage2, > > “The Govt.” already HAS direct acess to your bank account and has for > years. Ask anyone that has had accounts seized by the IRS. You didn’t > know this? > > On Aug 6, 1:15 am, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > Holly , > > > When you get to page 58, see how the government > > will have direct access to your bank account. My insurance company > > does not have access to my account! > > > ************************************************************************************************************* > > > On Aug 6, 12:23 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > Richard, > > > > Frankly, I’ll have to pull up HR 3200 and examine it closer before i > > > can make an objective and informed comment on it’s contents. To date > > > I’ve only read what others CLAIM it contains. > > > > On Aug 5, 11:14 pm, RichardForbes > > > wrote: > > > > > I am trying to keep an open mind about this and look for the good > > > > ideas imbedded in the proposals. I am not very excited about HR 3200, > > > > but the one idea they have correct is the Health Insurance Exchange. > > > > The problem is that they take it too far. There is no need to do > > > > that. Feel free to challenge me on my ideas, as I can only improve > > > > them with input from other people with open minds about the topic. I > > > > am not opposed to good reform, but I really do not think that HR 3200 > > > > is the answer. > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:55 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > Very good idea. > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:53 pm, RichardForbes > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > We have attempted to make our pension benefits portable. The same > > > > > > idea is important for healthcare, though the implementation is a bit > > > > > > different. I think that the combination of a government clearing > > > > > > house for small employers and individuals along with a federal > > > > > > exemption similar to ERISA would provide a bsais for the capacity to > > > > > > create a more portable system. Any person teminated could gain access > > > > > > through the clearing house and any person changing employers would > > > > > > have the same capacity. It would eliminate much of the need for > > > > > > insurers to have pre-existing condition clauses because the size of > > > > > > the group would be large enough to limit the risk of adverse > > > > > > selection. > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:46 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do not believe we > > > > > > > have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or germany or > > > > > > > the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been doing this for > > > > > > > years, carefully examine the systems or several of the nations that > > > > > > > seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the best ideas > > > > > > > from each of them and adopt them to our own country. There is, I > > > > > > > believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing only, that > > > > > > > would help a great deal is to not link health insurance to one’s > > > > > > > employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain the same > > > > > > > insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to employer > > > > > > > without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a county, state, > > > > > > > whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance companies to > > > > > > > insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just those not > > > > > > > already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out some sort of > > > > > > > interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have safeguards in > > > > > > > place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING else. Fund it > > > > > > > by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure there will be > > > > > > > administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the administrative > > > > > > > expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed (hopefully) the > > > > > > > interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set a goodly > > > > > > > portion of those administrative costs. > > > > > > > that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top of my head. > > > > > > > > And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive bids for all > > > > > > > the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list of approved > > > > > > > suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best price. if > > > > > > > Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? Well to bad, > > > > > > > guess some other drug store will get all the medicare business. Hell, > > > > > > > how many people would start a drug store just to have all the medicare/ > > > > > > > medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state? > > > > > > > > And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your thinking, and > > > > > > > that’s more than i can say for most people here and in our government. > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an > > > > > > > > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it > > > > > > > > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your > > > > > > > > reply. > > > > > > > > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), > > > > > > > > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following: > > > > > > > > > First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group > > > > > > > > and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to > > > > > > > > obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to > > > > > > > > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much > > > > > > > > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > > > > > > > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state > > > > > > > > laws and thus make > > > > > > > > them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition > > > > > > > > and reduce prices. > > > > > > > > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a > > > > > > > > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing > > > > > > > > the “Cadillac policies”. > > > > > > > > > Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have > > > > > > > > catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can > > > > > > > > self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against > > > > > > > > the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers. > > > > > > > > > It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would > > > > > > > > understand it and it would > > > > > > > > actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to > > > > > > > > ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I > > > > > > > > recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to > > > > > > > > limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add > > > > > > > > value. > > > > > > > > > Please let me know what you think of the ideas. > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > > > > > > > > > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > > > > > > > > > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > > > > > > > > > universal health care for their citizens? > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > > > > > > > > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > > > > > > > > > you. Do you think that the federal government will more efficiently > > > > > > > > > > administer the healthcare in our country? > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > > > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > > > > > > > > > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off people,if the > > > > > > > > > > > suppliers of those car dealers and manufacturers and banks lay off > > > > > > > > > > > people whose money do you think will be used to pay for unemployment > > > > > > > > > > > checks, food stamps if they need it, etc? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:42 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > > > > > > > > No kidding. I’m willing to bet I can drive the sales up on just about > > > > > > > > > > > > anything by offering to help pay for it with someone else’s money. > > > > > > > > > > > > What’s the point? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:49 pm, Mark wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > auto sales are up over 25% in europe under an identical program….it is > > > > > > > > > > > > > working > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:37 PM, VT VirtualTruth > > > > > > > > > > > > >
wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got news for you, the fact that the program was depletedr an identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > > program….it is working. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so quickly shows there was a need and as a stimulus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the earnings numbers for the auto industry says > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:17 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
I concur with you Sage. ONLY if you fail to pay your taxes can the IRS garnish your account.
On Aug 6, 11:26 am, Sage2 wrote: > Holly, > > Only by legal action and garnishing wages > for tax purposes, not direct deposit style where they would take > ( steal ) at will without accountability. You your ilk and the PIMP > ( president in my pocket ) are going to hit a brick wall on this one. > Time to wake up before you guys hit that wall! > > **************************************************************************************************************************** > > On Aug 6, 11:16 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Sage2, > > > “The Govt.” already HAS direct acess to your bank account and has for > > years. Ask anyone that has had accounts seized by the IRS. You didn’t > > know this? > > > On Aug 6, 1:15 am, Sage2 wrote: > > > > Holly , > > > > When you get to page 58, see how the government > > > will have direct access to your bank account. My insurance company > > > does not have access to my account! > > > > ************************************************************************************************************* > > > > On Aug 6, 12:23 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Richard, > > > > > Frankly, I’ll have to pull up HR 3200 and examine it closer before i > > > > can make an objective and informed comment on it’s contents. To date > > > > I’ve only read what others CLAIM it contains. > > > > > On Aug 5, 11:14 pm, RichardForbes > > > > wrote: > > > > > > I am trying to keep an open mind about this and look for the good > > > > > ideas imbedded in the proposals. I am not very excited about HR 3200, > > > > > but the one idea they have correct is the Health Insurance Exchange. > > > > > The problem is that they take it too far. There is no need to do > > > > > that. Feel free to challenge me on my ideas, as I can only improve > > > > > them with input from other people with open minds about the topic. I > > > > > am not opposed to good reform, but I really do not think that HR 3200 > > > > > is the answer. > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:55 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > Very good idea. > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:53 pm, RichardForbes > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > We have attempted to make our pension benefits portable. The same > > > > > > > idea is important for healthcare, though the implementation is a bit > > > > > > > different. I think that the combination of a government clearing > > > > > > > house for small employers and individuals along with a federal > > > > > > > exemption similar to ERISA would provide a bsais for the capacity to > > > > > > > create a more portable system. Any person teminated could gain access > > > > > > > through the clearing house and any person changing employers would > > > > > > > have the same capacity. It would eliminate much of the need for > > > > > > > insurers to have pre-existing condition clauses because the size of > > > > > > > the group would be large enough to limit the risk of adverse > > > > > > > selection. > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:46 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do not believe we > > > > > > > > have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or germany or > > > > > > > > the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been doing this for > > > > > > > > years, carefully examine the systems or several of the nations that > > > > > > > > seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the best ideas > > > > > > > > from each of them and adopt them to our own country. There is, I > > > > > > > > believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing only, that > > > > > > > > would help a great deal is to not link health insurance to one’s > > > > > > > > employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain the same > > > > > > > > insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to employer > > > > > > > > without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a county, state, > > > > > > > > whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance companies to > > > > > > > > insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just those not > > > > > > > > already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out some sort of > > > > > > > > interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have safeguards in > > > > > > > > place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING else. Fund it > > > > > > > > by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure there will be > > > > > > > > administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the administrative > > > > > > > > expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed (hopefully) the > > > > > > > > interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set a goodly > > > > > > > > portion of those administrative costs. > > > > > > > > that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top of my head. > > > > > > > > > And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive bids for all > > > > > > > > the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list of approved > > > > > > > > suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best price. if > > > > > > > > Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? Well to bad, > > > > > > > > guess some other drug store will get all the medicare business. Hell, > > > > > > > > how many people would start a drug store just to have all the medicare/ > > > > > > > > medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state? > > > > > > > > > And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your thinking, and > > > > > > > > that’s more than i can say for most people here and in our government. > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an > > > > > > > > > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it > > > > > > > > > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your > > > > > > > > > reply. > > > > > > > > > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), > > > > > > > > > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following: > > > > > > > > > > First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group > > > > > > > > > and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to > > > > > > > > > obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to > > > > > > > > > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much > > > > > > > > > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > > > > > > > > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state > > > > > > > > > laws and thus make > > > > > > > > > them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition > > > > > > > > > and reduce prices. > > > > > > > > > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a > > > > > > > > > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing > > > > > > > > > the “Cadillac policies”. > > > > > > > > > > Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have > > > > > > > > > catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can > > > > > > > > > self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against > > > > > > > > > the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers. > > > > > > > > > > It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would > > > > > > > > > understand it and it would > > > > > > > > > actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to > > > > > > > > > ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I > > > > > > > > > recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to > > > > > > > > > limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add > > > > > > > > > value. > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know what you think of the ideas. > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > > > > > > > > > > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > > > > > > > > > > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > > > > > > > > > > universal health care for their citizens? > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > > > > > > > > > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > > > > > > > > > > you. Do you think that the federal government will more efficiently > > > > > > > > > > > administer the healthcare in our country? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > > > > > > > > > > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off people,if the > > > > > > > > > > > > suppliers of those car dealers and manufacturers and banks lay off > > > > > > > > > > > > people whose money do you think will be used to pay for unemployment > > > > > > > > > > > > checks, food stamps if they need it, etc? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:42 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No kidding. I’m willing to bet I can drive the sales up on just about > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything by offering to help pay for it with someone else’s money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What’s the point?- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -… > > read more »
Sage2,
Thought we were talking about access. My social security check is directly deposited into my bank account, guess the govt. has access. My house mortgage is also handled that way, guess my Mortgage company has access to my account. Etc. etc. etc.
On Aug 6, 10:26 am, Sage2 wrote: > Holly, > > Only by legal action and garnishing wages > for tax purposes, not direct deposit style where they would take > ( steal ) at will without accountability. You your ilk and the PIMP > ( president in my pocket ) are going to hit a brick wall on this one. > Time to wake up before you guys hit that wall! > > **************************************************************************************************************************** > > On Aug 6, 11:16 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Sage2, > > > “The Govt.” already HAS direct acess to your bank account and has for > > years. Ask anyone that has had accounts seized by the IRS. You didn’t > > know this? > > > On Aug 6, 1:15 am, Sage2 wrote: > > > > Holly , > > > > When you get to page 58, see how the government > > > will have direct access to your bank account. My insurance company > > > does not have access to my account! > > > > ************************************************************************************************************* > > > > On Aug 6, 12:23 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Richard, > > > > > Frankly, I’ll have to pull up HR 3200 and examine it closer before i > > > > can make an objective and informed comment on it’s contents. To date > > > > I’ve only read what others CLAIM it contains. > > > > > On Aug 5, 11:14 pm, RichardForbes > > > > wrote: > > > > > > I am trying to keep an open mind about this and look for the good > > > > > ideas imbedded in the proposals. I am not very excited about HR 3200, > > > > > but the one idea they have correct is the Health Insurance Exchange. > > > > > The problem is that they take it too far. There is no need to do > > > > > that. Feel free to challenge me on my ideas, as I can only improve > > > > > them with input from other people with open minds about the topic. I > > > > > am not opposed to good reform, but I really do not think that HR 3200 > > > > > is the answer. > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:55 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > Very good idea. > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:53 pm, RichardForbes > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > We have attempted to make our pension benefits portable. The same > > > > > > > idea is important for healthcare, though the implementation is a bit > > > > > > > different. I think that the combination of a government clearing > > > > > > > house for small employers and individuals along with a federal > > > > > > > exemption similar to ERISA would provide a bsais for the capacity to > > > > > > > create a more portable system. Any person teminated could gain access > > > > > > > through the clearing house and any person changing employers would > > > > > > > have the same capacity. It would eliminate much of the need for > > > > > > > insurers to have pre-existing condition clauses because the size of > > > > > > > the group would be large enough to limit the risk of adverse > > > > > > > selection. > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:46 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do not believe we > > > > > > > > have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or germany or > > > > > > > > the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been doing this for > > > > > > > > years, carefully examine the systems or several of the nations that > > > > > > > > seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the best ideas > > > > > > > > from each of them and adopt them to our own country. There is, I > > > > > > > > believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing only, that > > > > > > > > would help a great deal is to not link health insurance to one’s > > > > > > > > employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain the same > > > > > > > > insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to employer > > > > > > > > without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a county, state, > > > > > > > > whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance companies to > > > > > > > > insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just those not > > > > > > > > already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out some sort of > > > > > > > > interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have safeguards in > > > > > > > > place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING else. Fund it > > > > > > > > by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure there will be > > > > > > > > administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the administrative > > > > > > > > expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed (hopefully) the > > > > > > > > interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set a goodly > > > > > > > > portion of those administrative costs. > > > > > > > > that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top of my head. > > > > > > > > > And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive bids for all > > > > > > > > the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list of approved > > > > > > > > suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best price. if > > > > > > > > Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? Well to bad, > > > > > > > > guess some other drug store will get all the medicare business. Hell, > > > > > > > > how many people would start a drug store just to have all the medicare/ > > > > > > > > medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state? > > > > > > > > > And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your thinking, and > > > > > > > > that’s more than i can say for most people here and in our government. > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an > > > > > > > > > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it > > > > > > > > > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your > > > > > > > > > reply. > > > > > > > > > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), > > > > > > > > > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following: > > > > > > > > > > First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group > > > > > > > > > and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to > > > > > > > > > obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to > > > > > > > > > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much > > > > > > > > > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > > > > > > > > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state > > > > > > > > > laws and thus make > > > > > > > > > them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition > > > > > > > > > and reduce prices. > > > > > > > > > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a > > > > > > > > > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing > > > > > > > > > the “Cadillac policies”. > > > > > > > > > > Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have > > > > > > > > > catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can > > > > > > > > > self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against > > > > > > > > > the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers. > > > > > > > > > > It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would > > > > > > > > > understand it and it would > > > > > > > > > actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to > > > > > > > > > ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I > > > > > > > > > recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to > > > > > > > > > limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add > > > > > > > > > value. > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know what you think of the ideas. > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > > > > > > > > > > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > > > > > > > > > > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > > > > > > > > > > universal health care for their citizens? > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > > > > > > > > > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > > > > > > > > > > you. Do you think that the federal government will more efficiently > > > > > > > > > > > administer the healthcare in our country? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > > > > > > > > > > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off people,if the > > > > > > > > > > > > suppliers of those car dealers and manufacturers and banks lay off > > > > > > > > > > > > people whose money do you think will be used to pay for unemployment > > > > > > > > > > > > checks, food stamps if they need it, etc? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:42 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No kidding. I’m willing to bet I can drive the sales up on just about > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything by offering to help pay for it with someone else’s money. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What’s the point? > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
Holly,
That is because you ” CHOSE ” to ! Nice try at your usual ” stop & spin ” though. The American people are not given a choice in this bill !
*************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************
On Aug 6, 11:55 am, Hollywood wrote: > Sage2, > > Thought we were talking about access. My social security check is > directly deposited into my bank account, guess the govt. has access. > My house mortgage is also handled that way, guess my Mortgage company > has access to my account. Etc. etc. etc. > > On Aug 6, 10:26 am, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > Holly, > > > Only by legal action and garnishing wages > > for tax purposes, not direct deposit style where they would take > > ( steal ) at will without accountability. You your ilk and the PIMP > > ( president in my pocket ) are going to hit a brick wall on this one. > > Time to wake up before you guys hit that wall! > > > **************************************************************************************************************************** > > > On Aug 6, 11:16 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > Sage2, > > > > “The Govt.” already HAS direct acess to your bank account and has for > > > years. Ask anyone that has had accounts seized by the IRS. You didn’t > > > know this? > > > > On Aug 6, 1:15 am, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > Holly , > > > > > When you get to page 58, see how the government > > > > will have direct access to your bank account. My insurance company > > > > does not have access to my account! > > > > > ************************************************************************************************************* > > > > > On Aug 6, 12:23 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > Frankly, I’ll have to pull up HR 3200 and examine it closer before i > > > > > can make an objective and informed comment on it’s contents. To date > > > > > I’ve only read what others CLAIM it contains. > > > > > > On Aug 5, 11:14 pm, RichardForbes > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I am trying to keep an open mind about this and look for the good > > > > > > ideas imbedded in the proposals. I am not very excited about HR 3200, > > > > > > but the one idea they have correct is the Health Insurance Exchange. > > > > > > The problem is that they take it too far. There is no need to do > > > > > > that. Feel free to challenge me on my ideas, as I can only improve > > > > > > them with input from other people with open minds about the topic. I > > > > > > am not opposed to good reform, but I really do not think that HR 3200 > > > > > > is the answer. > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:55 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > Very good idea. > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:53 pm, RichardForbes > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > We have attempted to make our pension benefits portable. The same > > > > > > > > idea is important for healthcare, though the implementation is a bit > > > > > > > > different. I think that the combination of a government clearing > > > > > > > > house for small employers and individuals along with a federal > > > > > > > > exemption similar to ERISA would provide a bsais for the capacity to > > > > > > > > create a more portable system. Any person teminated could gain access > > > > > > > > through the clearing house and any person changing employers would > > > > > > > > have the same capacity. It would eliminate much of the need for > > > > > > > > insurers to have pre-existing condition clauses because the size of > > > > > > > > the group would be large enough to limit the risk of adverse > > > > > > > > selection. > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:46 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > > That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do not believe we > > > > > > > > > have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or germany or > > > > > > > > > the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been doing this for > > > > > > > > > years, carefully examine the systems or several of the nations that > > > > > > > > > seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the best ideas > > > > > > > > > from each of them and adopt them to our own country. There is, I > > > > > > > > > believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing only, that > > > > > > > > > would help a great deal is to not link health insurance to one’s > > > > > > > > > employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain the same > > > > > > > > > insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to employer > > > > > > > > > without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a county, state, > > > > > > > > > whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance companies to > > > > > > > > > insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just those not > > > > > > > > > already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out some sort of > > > > > > > > > interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have safeguards in > > > > > > > > > place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING else. Fund it > > > > > > > > > by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure there will be > > > > > > > > > administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the administrative > > > > > > > > > expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed (hopefully) the > > > > > > > > > interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set a goodly > > > > > > > > > portion of those administrative costs. > > > > > > > > > that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top of my head. > > > > > > > > > > And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive bids for all > > > > > > > > > the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list of approved > > > > > > > > > suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best price. if > > > > > > > > > Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? Well to bad, > > > > > > > > > guess some other drug store will get all the medicare business. Hell, > > > > > > > > > how many people would start a drug store just to have all the medicare/ > > > > > > > > > medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state? > > > > > > > > > > And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your thinking, and > > > > > > > > > that’s more than i can say for most people here and in our government. > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an > > > > > > > > > > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it > > > > > > > > > > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your > > > > > > > > > > reply. > > > > > > > > > > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), > > > > > > > > > > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following: > > > > > > > > > > > First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group > > > > > > > > > > and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to > > > > > > > > > > obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to > > > > > > > > > > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much > > > > > > > > > > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > > > > > > > > > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state > > > > > > > > > > laws and thus make > > > > > > > > > > them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition > > > > > > > > > > and reduce prices. > > > > > > > > > > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a > > > > > > > > > > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing > > > > > > > > > > the “Cadillac policies”. > > > > > > > > > > > Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have > > > > > > > > > > catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can > > > > > > > > > > self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against > > > > > > > > > > the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers. > > > > > > > > > > > It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would > > > > > > > > > > understand it and it would > > > > > > > > > > actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to > > > > > > > > > > ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I > > > > > > > > > > recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to > > > > > > > > > > limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add > > > > > > > > > > value. > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know what you think of the ideas. > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > > > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > > > > > > > > > > > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > > > > > > > > > > > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > > > > > > > > > > > universal health care for their citizens? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > > > > > > > > > > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > > > > > > > > > > > you. Do you think that the federal government will more efficiently > > > > > > > > > > > > administer the healthcare in our country? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > > > > > > > > > > > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
socialism and communism Every child knows that Americans are not allowed to have a health system that does not bankrupt the average family. Is England or Canada communist? It is the corrupt politicians who are lining their pockets with payments from the insurance companies, that prevent a humain health system in the USA.
On Aug 3, 11:39 pm, Travis wrote: > What is needed is for the fed gov’t to get out of interferring with business > period and provide only such minimal supervision and regulation as necessary > to protect the general citizenry. > > And everyone who advocates socialism and communism to get their sorry asses > out of this country and go live in their beloved north korea. > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:58 PM, VT Sean Lewis
wrote: > > > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > destruction of the American dream. > > > Sean Lewis > > August 3, 2009 > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > Republicans! > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > > The country was on the brink of complete collapse > > the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An > > Administration and party that was in complete > > denial there was a problem with the economy. > > > It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion > > in a single quarter that saved the country from another > > Depression type collapse. > > > When economic pollicies almost end in complete > > collapse, in my book that means FAILURE! Why > > take advice from people who almost detroyed the > > very thing America needed to stay strong? > > > The effects are still being felt 3 quarters later, however > > we have steered away from the edge by NEW Democratic > > Leadership. > > > There is no longer talk of the US facing economic collapse, > > in fact there is talk of a stock market BULL rally. > > > Yet Republicans are using everything in their political > > arsenal to stop the Democrats and the Country itself > > from succeeding. > > > The lunatic fringe of the GOP are using lies, scare tactics, > > hatred and race baiting to focus the attention of the country > > away from healing and recovery to more of the same of the last > > 8 years. Division, strife, class warfare and most recently > > racism. > > > The latest obstruction to US recovery is healthcare reform. > > > Under the Bush Administration more people have entered the > > uninsured rolls, the costs associated with the Social Programs > > of Medicare, Medicaid have risen unchecked and even increased > > due to the one ‘FIX’ Republicans attempted, the Medicare Prescription > > Drug program that did not help anyone who was not insured and > > cost $850 Billion a year at it’s inception, this figure > > will climb as the Baby boomers retire all to give Viagra to the > > pension > > crowd. > > > The Republicans rather than fixing the healthcare system actually > > have hurried up it’s demise. Because of what the Republicans have > > done, > > Medicare and Medicaid will go bankrupt FASTER and the Baby Boomers > > will be left with FEWER options if any! > > > The Democrats are trying to fix this with reform in the form > > of preventative care, which will lower FUTURE costs of medical care. > > > Costs control by forcing the insurance and drug companies to offer > > lower priced care through competition. > > > Finally actually offering Minimal low cost coverage for the uninsured > > and unemployed! > > > Without these changes the fate of Healthcare will be similar to the > > collapse of the economy in the fall of 2008! > > > So the GOP is using scare tactics similar to the tactics to get > > this country into war with Iraq. Scare Tactics based on lies, half > > truths > > and misinformation. > > > The GOP is using their shock troops who still believe that President > > Obama > > was not born in the US despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary! > > > These individuals are now using the same Birther reasoning to shout > > abuse at town halls in an attempt to show Congress that America is > > against Health care reform. > > > These are the same people who thought…. > > > There were WMD’s. > > > Terri Schiavo was not brain dead. > > > The was a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > Al qaeda was in Iraq before the Iraq Invasion. > > > Spying on Americans without a warrant is not against the law. > > > The White House was not responsible for the Treasonous release > > of a covert CIA Operatives identity. > > > The US not tortured Iraqis, some to death, and if they did it was to > > protect > > Americans, not to find a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > Bush did protect Americans from the 9/11 attack > > even after ignoring several dozen warnings of a pending attack. > > > I can go on and on , but lets skip to the latest lunatic fringe > > far right conspiracy which once again ignores the truth and the > > facts to tell the LIE, Obama is not an Native born American. > > The facts, a certified birth certificate and birth announcements > > in local papers announcing Obama’s birth seem not to matter > > to the hate driven core racist of the GOP, the fools who believe > > ignorance trumps intelligence, and incompetence arrogance and > > ignorance are forgivable even if it costs American lives > > > These are the people now giving advice on the Health Care solution! > > > Enough is enough! > > > If you want failure as we had the last 8 years, listen to Republicans, > > > If you want the continued slow recovery and a future! Listen to the > > President and the Democrats!
Members of Congress have been home for just a few days, and they’re already facing increased pressure from insurance companies, special interests, and partisan attack organizations that are spending millions to block health insurance reform.
These groups are using scare tactics and spreading smears about the President’s plan for reform, trying to incite constituents into lashing out at their representatives and disrupting their events.
The goal of these disruptions is for a few people to get a lot of media attention and hijack the entire public discourse. If they succeed, all Americans — Democrats, Republicans, and Independents — will continue to struggle under the broken status quo.
It’s up to us to show Congress that those loudly opposing reform are a tiny minority being stirred up by special interests, and that a huge majority strongly supports enacting real health insurance reform in 2009.
On Aug 4, 12:28 am, Hollywood wrote: > Travis, > > And just WHO gets to decide what constitutes “minimal supervision and > regulation as necessary to protect the general citizenry”? THAT my > man, would be the elected REPRESENTATIVES of the “general citizenry” > which would be the U.S. Congress. > What? Did you think I was going to say the U.S. corporations > themsevles? The U.S. Chamber of Commerce of something? > > On Aug 3, 4:39 pm, Travis wrote: > > > > > What is needed is for the fed gov’t to get out of interferring with business > > period and provide only such minimal supervision and regulation as necessary > > to protect the general citizenry. > > > And everyone who advocates socialism and communism to get their sorry asses > > out of this country and go live in their beloved north korea. > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:58 PM, VT Sean Lewis
wrote: > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > > destruction of the American dream. > > > > Sean Lewis > > > August 3, 2009 > > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > > Republicans! > > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > > > The country was on the brink of complete collapse > > > the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An > > > Administration and party that was in complete > > > denial there was a problem with the economy. > > > > It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion > > > in a single quarter that saved the country from another > > > Depression type collapse. > > > > When economic pollicies almost end in complete > > > collapse, in my book that means FAILURE! Why > > > take advice from people who almost detroyed the > > > very thing America needed to stay strong? > > > > The effects are still being felt 3 quarters later, however > > > we have steered away from the edge by NEW Democratic > > > Leadership. > > > > There is no longer talk of the US facing economic collapse, > > > in fact there is talk of a stock market BULL rally. > > > > Yet Republicans are using everything in their political > > > arsenal to stop the Democrats and the Country itself > > > from succeeding. > > > > The lunatic fringe of the GOP are using lies, scare tactics, > > > hatred and race baiting to focus the attention of the country > > > away from healing and recovery to more of the same of the last > > > 8 years. Division, strife, class warfare and most recently > > > racism. > > > > The latest obstruction to US recovery is healthcare reform. > > > > Under the Bush Administration more people have entered the > > > uninsured rolls, the costs associated with the Social Programs > > > of Medicare, Medicaid have risen unchecked and even increased > > > due to the one ‘FIX’ Republicans attempted, the Medicare Prescription > > > Drug program that did not help anyone who was not insured and > > > cost $850 Billion a year at it’s inception, this figure > > > will climb as the Baby boomers retire all to give Viagra to the > > > pension > > > crowd. > > > > The Republicans rather than fixing the healthcare system actually > > > have hurried up it’s demise. Because of what the Republicans have > > > done, > > > Medicare and Medicaid will go bankrupt FASTER and the Baby Boomers > > > will be left with FEWER options if any! > > > > The Democrats are trying to fix this with reform in the form > > > of preventative care, which will lower FUTURE costs of medical care. > > > > Costs control by forcing the insurance and drug companies to offer > > > lower priced care through competition. > > > > Finally actually offering Minimal low cost coverage for the uninsured > > > and unemployed! > > > > Without these changes the fate of Healthcare will be similar to the > > > collapse of the economy in the fall of 2008! > > > > So the GOP is using scare tactics similar to the tactics to get > > > this country into war with Iraq. Scare Tactics based on lies, half > > > truths > > > and misinformation. > > > > The GOP is using their shock troops who still believe that President > > > Obama > > > was not born in the US despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary! > > > > These individuals are now using the same Birther reasoning to shout > > > abuse at town halls in an attempt to show Congress that America is > > > against Health care reform. > > > > These are the same people who thought…. > > > > There were WMD’s. > > > > Terri Schiavo was not brain dead. > > > > The was a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > Al qaeda was in Iraq before the Iraq Invasion. > > > > Spying on Americans without a warrant is not against the law. > > > > The White House was not responsible for the Treasonous release > > > of a covert CIA Operatives identity. > > > > The US not tortured Iraqis, some to death, and if they did it was to > > > protect > > > Americans, not to find a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > Bush did protect Americans from the 9/11 attack > > > even after ignoring several dozen warnings of a pending attack. > > > > I can go on and on , but lets skip to the latest lunatic fringe > > > far right conspiracy which once again ignores the truth and the > > > facts to tell the LIE, Obama is not an Native born American. > > > The facts, a certified birth certificate and birth announcements > > > in local papers announcing Obama’s birth seem not to matter > > > to the hate driven core racist of the GOP, the fools who believe > > > ignorance trumps intelligence, and incompetence arrogance and > > > ignorance are forgivable even if it costs American lives > > > > These are the people now giving advice on the Health Care solution! > > > > Enough is enough! > > > > If you want failure as we had the last 8 years, listen to Republicans, > > > > If you want the continued slow recovery and a future! Listen to the > > > President and the Democrats!- Hide quoted text – > > > – Show quoted text -
by Harry Browne
May 2, 2002
The politicians are pushing to raise the cost of your health insurance again.
Of course, that’s not how they describe what they’re doing. They claim to be exercising compassion when they propose to force insurance companies to include mental illness in every health-insurance policy.
Politicians love to posture as friends of particular groups women, children, and people suffering from a particular disease by forcing insurance companies to cover some medical procedure that’s important to a target audience. But every time the government (state or federal) forces insurers to include another benefit in your policy, your premium has to go up.
So it isn’t surprising that over three decades the cost of health insurance has risen spectacularly.
Depending on the state you live in, your health insurance may be priced to include mandatory coverage of chiropractors, acupuncture, naturopathy, marriage counseling, abortions, drug abuse, alcoholism, treatments to stop smoking, cosmetic surgery, weight loss, wigs and other hairpieces, Christian Science practitioners, and dozens of other possibilities.
I have nothing against any of these treatments. But it makes no sense for the government to force you to pay for such coverage if you’d prefer a cheaper policy. Just as when you buy a computer or a cell phone, you should be able to select and pay for only the features you need and want not what the politicians think you need.
As the politicians keep pushing up the cost, every medical interest group suffers. So most of them go to Washington (or the state capitol) to lobby the politicians to provide relief by forcing insurers to add their favored treatment to the mandatory coverage pushing the price up further.
It may be hard to believe, but back in the 1950s health insurance cost just a few dollars a month for most people and it was available to virtually everyone, including people with pre-existing conditions.
The percentage of people covered grew steadily from the 1940s. And by the early 1970s, almost all Americans were covered by some form of insurance. Then the politicians went to work to load up policies with mandatory coverage of all sorts of conditions that may be of no use to you. More and more people decided that insurance had become too expensive and decided to risk being uninsured. By the 1990s coverage had dropped to under 70% of Americans.
In addition, many employers decided health coverage was too expensive. In 1980 fully 97% of the companies with 100 or more employees provided medical coverage. By 1995, only 77% were doing so.
The growing number of uninsured people gives politicians more ammunition for more programs to force more costs onto insurance companies, and to push the price of insurance still higher.
The cost of insurance is only one area where the politicians have ruined our health-care system.
You may have noticed that they’re also pushing for a "Patients’ Bill of Rights" supposedly to give patients certain privileges in dealing with health maintenance organizations (HMOs).
No one is pushing for a "Bill of Rights" to protect patients against doctors or against druggists, supermarkets, computer stores, or interior decorators. So how did HMOs become so powerful and dictatorial that their customers need protection?
Nearly 30 years ago Congress passed the HMO Act of 1973 which subsidized HMOs and gave them a preferred position among employers. The Act was finally repealed in 1995, but by that time HMOs had become thoroughly entrenched as the centerpiece of employer-sponsored health programs.
Once again, the politicians are seizing the opportunity to save us from their own handiwork.
The solution to all today’s medical problems is to get government out of health care.
At a minimum we need to:
These are the kinds of solutions that show real compassion for the sick and the vulnerable.
And that’s why no politician is proposing them.
coatesmoe Members of Congress have been home for just a few days, and they’re already facing increased pressure from insurance companies, special interests, and partisan attack organizations that are spending millions to block health insurance reform. These groups are using scare tactics and spreading smears about the
MJ Congress has no constitutional authority to make such legislation. The President, of course, has no constitutional authority to legislate.
Wouldn’t it be better to have COMPETITION instead of Government monopoly AND Government created/mandated advantage?
The problem with health care in this country is rooted in the previous interventions by the Feds … to respond to the Fed’s interventions before those … to respond to the Fed’s interventions before those … to respond to the Fed’s interventions before those … to respond to the Fed’s interventions before those …
You truly want to ‘fix’ the problem? Lance the boil that is the Government. REMOVE the Government from the equation … eliminate the Medical Cartel created and maintained by the AMA … eliminate the FDA and their stranglehold on pharmaceuticals and equipment … eliminate these government programs that hemorrhage money and distort the marketplace.
Instead we will continue to get reform after reform after reform that makes things WORSE … while those business persons attempting to follow the Government’s mandates will continue to be blamed for the failures … and the People will continue to get it both ways.
Regard$,
Coatsmoe, You will find that next to no-one is anti-health care reform. They are very against any program run by the government. The track record PROVES they don’t have a clue as to how to be fiscally correct while being service oriented.
we could discuss anything from six hundred dollar hammers to medicaid cost control and abuses. The more verbose any law the more loopholes and less effective its implementation.
you must question the base validity of any program to which the very people who institute it are not subject.
Mark,
Well said.
On Aug 6, 3:50 pm, Mark wrote: > Coatsmoe, You will find that next to no-one is anti-health care reform. They > are very against any program run by the government. The track record PROVES > they don’t have a clue as to how to be fiscally correct while being service > oriented. > > we could discuss anything from six hundred dollar hammers to medicaid cost > control and abuses. The more verbose any law the more loopholes and less > effective its implementation. > > you must question the base validity of any program to which the very > people who institute it are not subject. > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 1:22 PM, coatesmoe wrote: > > > Members of Congress have been home for just a few days, and they’re > > already facing increased pressure from insurance companies, special > > interests, and partisan attack organizations that are spending > > millions to block health insurance reform. > > > These groups are using scare tactics and spreading smears about the > > President’s plan for reform, trying to incite constituents into > > lashing out at their representatives and disrupting their events. > > > The goal of these disruptions is for a few people to get a lot of > > media attention and hijack the entire public discourse. If they > > succeed, all Americans — Democrats, Republicans, and Independents — > > will continue to struggle under the broken status quo. > > > It’s up to us to show Congress that those loudly opposing reform are a > > tiny minority being stirred up by special interests, and that a huge > > majority strongly supports enacting real health insurance reform in > > 2009. > > > On Aug 4, 12:28 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > Travis, > > > > And just WHO gets to decide what constitutes “minimal supervision and > > > regulation as necessary to protect the general citizenry”? THAT my > > > man, would be the elected REPRESENTATIVES of the “general citizenry” > > > which would be the U.S. Congress. > > > What? Did you think I was going to say the U.S. corporations > > > themsevles? The U.S. Chamber of Commerce of something? > > > > On Aug 3, 4:39 pm, Travis wrote: > > > > > What is needed is for the fed gov’t to get out of interferring with > > business > > > > period and provide only such minimal supervision and regulation as > > necessary > > > > to protect the general citizenry. > > > > > And everyone who advocates socialism and communism to get their sorry > > asses > > > > out of this country and go live in their beloved north korea. > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:58 PM, VT Sean Lewis <> > TheVirtualTr…@gmail.com>wrote: > > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > > > > destruction of the American dream. > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > August 3, 2009 > > > > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > > > > Republicans! > > > > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > > > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > > > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > > > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > > > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > > > > > The country was on the brink of complete collapse > > > > > the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An > > > > > Administration and party that was in complete > > > > > denial there was a problem with the economy. > > > > > > It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion > > > > > in a single quarter that saved the country from another > > > > > Depression type collapse. > > > > > > When economic pollicies almost end in complete > > > > > collapse, in my book that means FAILURE! Why > > > > > take advice from people who almost detroyed the > > > > > very thing America needed to stay strong? > > > > > > The effects are still being felt 3 quarters later, however > > > > > we have steered away from the edge by NEW Democratic > > > > > Leadership. > > > > > > There is no longer talk of the US facing economic collapse, > > > > > in fact there is talk of a stock market BULL rally. > > > > > > Yet Republicans are using everything in their political > > > > > arsenal to stop the Democrats and the Country itself > > > > > from succeeding. > > > > > > The lunatic fringe of the GOP are using lies, scare tactics, > > > > > hatred and race baiting to focus the attention of the country > > > > > away from healing and recovery to more of the same of the last > > > > > 8 years. Division, strife, class warfare and most recently > > > > > racism. > > > > > > The latest obstruction to US recovery is healthcare reform. > > > > > > Under the Bush Administration more people have entered the > > > > > uninsured rolls, the costs associated with the Social Programs > > > > > of Medicare, Medicaid have risen unchecked and even increased > > > > > due to the one ‘FIX’ Republicans attempted, the Medicare Prescription > > > > > Drug program that did not help anyone who was not insured and > > > > > cost $850 Billion a year at it’s inception, this figure > > > > > will climb as the Baby boomers retire all to give Viagra to the > > > > > pension > > > > > crowd. > > > > > > The Republicans rather than fixing the healthcare system actually > > > > > have hurried up it’s demise. Because of what the Republicans have > > > > > done, > > > > > Medicare and Medicaid will go bankrupt FASTER and the Baby Boomers > > > > > will be left with FEWER options if any! > > > > > > The Democrats are trying to fix this with reform in the form > > > > > of preventative care, which will lower FUTURE costs of medical care. > > > > > > Costs control by forcing the insurance and drug companies to offer > > > > > lower priced care through competition. > > > > > > Finally actually offering Minimal low cost coverage for the uninsured > > > > > and unemployed! > > > > > > Without these changes the fate of Healthcare will be similar to the > > > > > collapse of the economy in the fall of 2008! > > > > > > So the GOP is using scare tactics similar to the tactics to get > > > > > this country into war with Iraq. Scare Tactics based on lies, half > > > > > truths > > > > > and misinformation. > > > > > > The GOP is using their shock troops who still believe that President > > > > > Obama > > > > > was not born in the US despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary! > > > > > > These individuals are now using the same Birther reasoning to shout > > > > > abuse at town halls in an attempt to show Congress that America is > > > > > against Health care reform. > > > > > > These are the same people who thought…. > > > > > > There were WMD’s. > > > > > > Terri Schiavo was not brain dead. > > > > > > The was a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > Al qaeda was in Iraq before the Iraq Invasion. > > > > > > Spying on Americans without a warrant is not against the law. > > > > > > The White House was not responsible for the Treasonous release > > > > > of a covert CIA Operatives identity. > > > > > > The US not tortured Iraqis, some to death, and if they did it was to > > > > > protect > > > > > Americans, not to find a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > Bush did protect Americans from the 9/11 attack > > > > > even after ignoring several dozen warnings of a pending attack. > > > > > > I can go on and on , but lets skip to the latest lunatic fringe > > > > > far right conspiracy which once again ignores the truth and the > > > > > facts to tell the LIE, Obama is not an Native born American. > > > > > The facts, a certified birth certificate and birth announcements > > > > > in local papers announcing Obama’s birth seem not to matter > > > > > to the hate driven core racist of the GOP, the fools who believe > > > > > ignorance trumps intelligence, and incompetence arrogance and > > > > > ignorance are forgivable even if it costs American lives > > > > > > These are the people now giving advice on the Health Care solution! > > > > > > Enough is enough! > > > > > > If you want failure as we had the last 8 years, listen to > > Republicans, > > > > > > If you want the continued slow recovery and a future! Listen to the > > > > > President and the Democrats!- Hide quoted text – > > > > > – Show quoted text – > > — > Mark M. Kahle, ,www.filacoffee.com- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
Coatsmoe,
What you socialist types are seeing and hearing from is the ” silent majority ” ! Don’t be fooled you will see this reflected in 2010 when the Dems lose the house of Rep’s. for trying to shove this down the throats of the American taxpayers.
*************************************************************************************
On Aug 6, 3:22 pm, coatesmoe wrote: > Members of Congress have been home for just a few days, and they’re > already facing increased pressure from insurance companies, special > interests, and partisan attack organizations that are spending > millions to block health insurance reform. > > These groups are using scare tactics and spreading smears about the > President’s plan for reform, trying to incite constituents into > lashing out at their representatives and disrupting their events. > > The goal of these disruptions is for a few people to get a lot of > media attention and hijack the entire public discourse. If they > succeed, all Americans — Democrats, Republicans, and Independents — > will continue to struggle under the broken status quo. > > It’s up to us to show Congress that those loudly opposing reform are a > tiny minority being stirred up by special interests, and that a huge > majority strongly supports enacting real health insurance reform in > 2009. > > On Aug 4, 12:28 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Travis, > > > And just WHO gets to decide what constitutes “minimal supervision and > > regulation as necessary to protect the general citizenry”? THAT my > > man, would be the elected REPRESENTATIVES of the “general citizenry” > > which would be the U.S. Congress. > > What? Did you think I was going to say the U.S. corporations > > themsevles? The U.S. Chamber of Commerce of something? > > > On Aug 3, 4:39 pm, Travis wrote: > > > > What is needed is for the fed gov’t to get out of interferring with business > > > period and provide only such minimal supervision and regulation as necessary > > > to protect the general citizenry. > > > > And everyone who advocates socialism and communism to get their sorry asses > > > out of this country and go live in their beloved north korea. > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:58 PM, VT Sean Lewis
wrote: > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > > > destruction of the American dream. > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > August 3, 2009 > > > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > > > Republicans! > > > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > > > > The country was on the brink of complete collapse > > > > the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An > > > > Administration and party that was in complete > > > > denial there was a problem with the economy. > > > > > It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion > > > > in a single quarter that saved the country from another > > > > Depression type collapse. > > > > > When economic pollicies almost end in complete > > > > collapse, in my book that means FAILURE! Why > > > > take advice from people who almost detroyed the > > > > very thing America needed to stay strong? > > > > > The effects are still being felt 3 quarters later, however > > > > we have steered away from the edge by NEW Democratic > > > > Leadership. > > > > > There is no longer talk of the US facing economic collapse, > > > > in fact there is talk of a stock market BULL rally. > > > > > Yet Republicans are using everything in their political > > > > arsenal to stop the Democrats and the Country itself > > > > from succeeding. > > > > > The lunatic fringe of the GOP are using lies, scare tactics, > > > > hatred and race baiting to focus the attention of the country > > > > away from healing and recovery to more of the same of the last > > > > 8 years. Division, strife, class warfare and most recently > > > > racism. > > > > > The latest obstruction to US recovery is healthcare reform. > > > > > Under the Bush Administration more people have entered the > > > > uninsured rolls, the costs associated with the Social Programs > > > > of Medicare, Medicaid have risen unchecked and even increased > > > > due to the one ‘FIX’ Republicans attempted, the Medicare Prescription > > > > Drug program that did not help anyone who was not insured and > > > > cost $850 Billion a year at it’s inception, this figure > > > > will climb as the Baby boomers retire all to give Viagra to the > > > > pension > > > > crowd. > > > > > The Republicans rather than fixing the healthcare system actually > > > > have hurried up it’s demise. Because of what the Republicans have > > > > done, > > > > Medicare and Medicaid will go bankrupt FASTER and the Baby Boomers > > > > will be left with FEWER options if any! > > > > > The Democrats are trying to fix this with reform in the form > > > > of preventative care, which will lower FUTURE costs of medical care. > > > > > Costs control by forcing the insurance and drug companies to offer > > > > lower priced care through competition. > > > > > Finally actually offering Minimal low cost coverage for the uninsured > > > > and unemployed! > > > > > Without these changes the fate of Healthcare will be similar to the > > > > collapse of the economy in the fall of 2008! > > > > > So the GOP is using scare tactics similar to the tactics to get > > > > this country into war with Iraq. Scare Tactics based on lies, half > > > > truths > > > > and misinformation. > > > > > The GOP is using their shock troops who still believe that President > > > > Obama > > > > was not born in the US despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary! > > > > > These individuals are now using the same Birther reasoning to shout > > > > abuse at town halls in an attempt to show Congress that America is > > > > against Health care reform. > > > > > These are the same people who thought…. > > > > > There were WMD’s. > > > > > Terri Schiavo was not brain dead. > > > > > The was a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > Al qaeda was in Iraq before the Iraq Invasion. > > > > > Spying on Americans without a warrant is not against the law. > > > > > The White House was not responsible for the Treasonous release > > > > of a covert CIA Operatives identity. > > > > > The US not tortured Iraqis, some to death, and if they did it was to > > > > protect > > > > Americans, not to find a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > Bush did protect Americans from the 9/11 attack > > > > even after ignoring several dozen warnings of a pending attack. > > > > > I can go on and on , but lets skip to the latest lunatic fringe > > > > far right conspiracy which once again ignores the truth and the > > > > facts to tell the LIE, Obama is not an Native born American. > > > > The facts, a certified birth certificate and birth announcements > > > > in local papers announcing Obama’s birth seem not to matter > > > > to the hate driven core racist of the GOP, the fools who believe > > > > ignorance trumps intelligence, and incompetence arrogance and > > > > ignorance are forgivable even if it costs American lives > > > > > These are the people now giving advice on the Health Care solution! > > > > > Enough is enough! > > > > > If you want failure as we had the last 8 years, listen to Republicans, > > > > > If you want the continued slow recovery and a future! Listen to the > > > > President and the Democrats!- Hide quoted text – > > > > – Show quoted text — Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
Sage, If the “Silent Majority” had half a brain it would vote for “none of the above”. Both parties are equally guilty of all the sins. I see no one from either party worthy of office.
Mark,
Fair enough! But we do not have that luxury under the current two party system. Both partys have made laws to favor a two party only system. The peolple need a referendum on the adoption of a three party system at minimum,or some such change and action.
********************************************************************************
On Aug 6, 7:29 pm, Mark wrote: > Sage, If the “Silent Majority” had half a brain it would vote for “none of > the above”. Both parties are equally guilty of all the sins. I see no one > from either party worthy of office. > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Sage2 wrote: > > > Coatsmoe, > > > What you socialist types are seeing and hearing from is the > > ” silent majority ” ! Don’t be fooled you will see this reflected in > > 2010 when the Dems lose the house of Rep’s. for trying to shove this > > down the throats of the American taxpayers. > > > ************************************************************************************* > > > On Aug 6, 3:22 pm, coatesmoe wrote: > > > Members of Congress have been home for just a few days, and they’re > > > already facing increased pressure from insurance companies, special > > > interests, and partisan attack organizations that are spending > > > millions to block health insurance reform. > > > > These groups are using scare tactics and spreading smears about the > > > President’s plan for reform, trying to incite constituents into > > > lashing out at their representatives and disrupting their events. > > > > The goal of these disruptions is for a few people to get a lot of > > > media attention and hijack the entire public discourse. If they > > > succeed, all Americans — Democrats, Republicans, and Independents — > > > will continue to struggle under the broken status quo. > > > > It’s up to us to show Congress that those loudly opposing reform are a > > > tiny minority being stirred up by special interests, and that a huge > > > majority strongly supports enacting real health insurance reform in > > > 2009. > > > > On Aug 4, 12:28 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Travis, > > > > > And just WHO gets to decide what constitutes “minimal supervision and > > > > regulation as necessary to protect the general citizenry”? THAT my > > > > man, would be the elected REPRESENTATIVES of the “general citizenry” > > > > which would be the U.S. Congress. > > > > What? Did you think I was going to say the U.S. corporations > > > > themsevles? The U.S. Chamber of Commerce of something? > > > > > On Aug 3, 4:39 pm, Travis wrote: > > > > > > What is needed is for the fed gov’t to get out of interferring with > > business > > > > > period and provide only such minimal supervision and regulation as > > necessary > > > > > to protect the general citizenry. > > > > > > And everyone who advocates socialism and communism to get their sorry > > asses > > > > > out of this country and go live in their beloved north korea. > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:58 PM, VT Sean Lewis <> > TheVirtualTr…@gmail.com>wrote: > > > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > > > > > destruction of the American dream. > > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > > August 3, 2009 > > > > > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > > > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > > > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > > > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > > > > > Republicans! > > > > > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > > > > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > > > > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > > > > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > > > > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > > > > > > The country was on the brink of complete collapse > > > > > > the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An > > > > > > Administration and party that was in complete > > > > > > denial there was a problem with the economy. > > > > > > > It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion > > > > > > in a single quarter that saved the country from another > > > > > > Depression type collapse. > > > > > > > When economic pollicies almost end in complete > > > > > > collapse, in my book that means FAILURE! Why > > > > > > take advice from people who almost detroyed the > > > > > > very thing America needed to stay strong? > > > > > > > The effects are still being felt 3 quarters later, however > > > > > > we have steered away from the edge by NEW Democratic > > > > > > Leadership. > > > > > > > There is no longer talk of the US facing economic collapse, > > > > > > in fact there is talk of a stock market BULL rally. > > > > > > > Yet Republicans are using everything in their political > > > > > > arsenal to stop the Democrats and the Country itself > > > > > > from succeeding. > > > > > > > The lunatic fringe of the GOP are using lies, scare tactics, > > > > > > hatred and race baiting to focus the attention of the country > > > > > > away from healing and recovery to more of the same of the last > > > > > > 8 years. Division, strife, class warfare and most recently > > > > > > racism. > > > > > > > The latest obstruction to US recovery is healthcare reform. > > > > > > > Under the Bush Administration more people have entered the > > > > > > uninsured rolls, the costs associated with the Social Programs > > > > > > of Medicare, Medicaid have risen unchecked and even increased > > > > > > due to the one ‘FIX’ Republicans attempted, the Medicare > > Prescription > > > > > > Drug program that did not help anyone who was not insured and > > > > > > cost $850 Billion a year at it’s inception, this figure > > > > > > will climb as the Baby boomers retire all to give Viagra to the > > > > > > pension > > > > > > crowd. > > > > > > > The Republicans rather than fixing the healthcare system actually > > > > > > have hurried up it’s demise. Because of what the Republicans have > > > > > > done, > > > > > > Medicare and Medicaid will go bankrupt FASTER and the Baby Boomers > > > > > > will be left with FEWER options if any! > > > > > > > The Democrats are trying to fix this with reform in the form > > > > > > of preventative care, which will lower FUTURE costs of medical > > care. > > > > > > > Costs control by forcing the insurance and drug companies to offer > > > > > > lower priced care through competition. > > > > > > > Finally actually offering Minimal low cost coverage for the > > uninsured > > > > > > and unemployed! > > > > > > > Without these changes the fate of Healthcare will be similar to the > > > > > > collapse of the economy in the fall of 2008! > > > > > > > So the GOP is using scare tactics similar to the tactics to get > > > > > > this country into war with Iraq. Scare Tactics based on lies, half > > > > > > truths > > > > > > and misinformation. > > > > > > > The GOP is using their shock troops who still believe that > > President > > > > > > Obama > > > > > > was not born in the US despite overwhelming evidence to the > > contrary! > > > > > > > These individuals are now using the same Birther reasoning to shout > > > > > > abuse at town halls in an attempt to show Congress that America is > > > > > > against Health care reform. > > > > > > > These are the same people who thought…. > > > > > > > There were WMD’s. > > > > > > > Terri Schiavo was not brain dead. > > > > > > > The was a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > > Al qaeda was in Iraq before the Iraq Invasion. > > > > > > > Spying on Americans without a warrant is not against the law. > > > > > > > The White House was not responsible for the Treasonous release > > > > > > of a covert CIA Operatives identity. > > > > > > > The US not tortured Iraqis, some to death, and if they did it was > > to > > > > > > protect > > > > > > Americans, not to find a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > > Bush did protect Americans from the 9/11 attack > > > > > > even after ignoring several dozen warnings of a pending attack. > > > > > > > I can go on and on , but lets skip to the latest lunatic fringe > > > > > > far right conspiracy which once again ignores the truth and the > > > > > > facts to tell the LIE, Obama is not an Native born American. > > > > > > The facts, a certified birth certificate and birth announcements > > > > > > in local papers announcing Obama’s birth seem not to matter > > > > > > to the hate driven core racist of the GOP, the fools who believe > > > > > > ignorance trumps intelligence, and incompetence arrogance and > > > > > > ignorance are forgivable even if it costs American lives > > > > > > > These are the people now giving advice on the Health Care solution! > > > > > > > Enough is enough! > > > > > > > If you want failure as we had the last 8 years, listen to > > Republicans, > > > > > > > If you want the continued slow recovery and a future! Listen to the > > > > > > President and the Democrats!- Hide quoted text – > > > > > > – Show quoted text — Hide quoted text – > > > > – Show quoted text – > > — > Mark M. Kahle, ,www.filacoffee.com- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
Sage2 Fair enough! But we do not have that luxury under the current two party system. Both partys have made laws to favor a two party only system. The peolple need a referendum on the adoption of a three party system at minimum,or some such change and action.
MJ Return to and ENFORCE the Constitution as it is written … and there is no incentive to Peddle Pull that is no longer in play to be peddled.
Regard$,
The House of Representatives runs the country. NOT the President. A bill passes the HOUSE 1st/goes to the Senate. ALL the Prez does is SIGN the bill. I do believe the HOUSE & the Senate are ‘controlled’ by DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY @ this time… & having lived with friends in Canada for a couple years I wanted to kiss the ground of the USA, actually I DID.
The USA Health Care ’system’ at least has FREEDOM of CHOICE. In Canada you do NOT. AND U DON’T get ’specialized’ ….You go where ever they send you.
Stars some UN-educated comments come from this site.
sILVER bELLE
> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 12:16:10 -0700 > Subject: Re: Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the destruction of the American dream. > From: coatesmoe@gmail.com > To: PoliticalForum@googlegroups.com > > > socialism and communism Every child knows that Americans are not > allowed to have a health system that does not bankrupt the average > family. Is England or Canada communist? It is the corrupt politicians > who are lining their pockets with payments from the insurance > companies, that prevent a humain health system in the USA. > > On Aug 3, 11:39 pm, Travis wrote: > > What is needed is for the fed gov’t to get out of interferring with business > > period and provide only such minimal supervision and regulation as necessary > > to protect the general citizenry. > > > > And everyone who advocates socialism and communism to get their sorry asses > > out of this country and go live in their beloved north korea. > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:58 PM, VT Sean Lewis
wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > > destruction of the American dream. > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > August 3, 2009 > > > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > > > Republicans! > > > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > > > > The country was on the brink of complete collapse > > > the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An > > > Administration and party that was in complete > > > denial there was a problem with the economy. > > > > > It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion > > > in a single quarter that saved the country from another > > > Depression type collapse. > > > > > When economic pollicies almost end in complete > > > collapse, in my book that means FAILURE! Why > > > take advice from people who almost detroyed the > > > very thing America needed to stay strong? > > > > > The effects are still being felt 3 quarters later, however > > > we have steered away from the edge by NEW Democratic > > > Leadership. > > > > > There is no longer talk of the US facing economic collapse, > > > in fact there is talk of a stock market BULL rally. > > > > > Yet Republicans are using everything in their political > > > arsenal to stop the Democrats and the Country itself > > > from succeeding. > > > > > The lunatic fringe of the GOP are using lies, scare tactics, > > > hatred and race baiting to focus the attention of the country > > > away from healing and recovery to more of the same of the last > > > 8 years. Division, strife, class warfare and most recently > > > racism. > > > > > The latest obstruction to US recovery is healthcare reform. > > > > > Under the Bush Administration more people have entered the > > > uninsured rolls, the costs associated with the Social Programs > > > of Medicare, Medicaid have risen unchecked and even increased > > > due to the one ‘FIX’ Republicans attempted, the Medicare Prescription > > > Drug program that did not help anyone who was not insured and > > > cost $850 Billion a year at it’s inception, this figure > > > will climb as the Baby boomers retire all to give Viagra to the > > > pension > > > crowd. > > > > > The Republicans rather than fixing the healthcare system actually > > > have hurried up it’s demise. Because of what the Republicans have > > > done, > > > Medicare and Medicaid will go bankrupt FASTER and the Baby Boomers > > > will be left with FEWER options if any! > > > > > The Democrats are trying to fix this with reform in the form > > > of preventative care, which will lower FUTURE costs of medical care. > > > > > Costs control by forcing the insurance and drug companies to offer > > > lower priced care through competition. > > > > > Finally actually offering Minimal low cost coverage for the uninsured > > > and unemployed! > > > > > Without these changes the fate of Healthcare will be similar to the > > > collapse of the economy in the fall of 2008! > > > > > So the GOP is using scare tactics similar to the tactics to get > > > this country into war with Iraq. Scare Tactics based on lies, half > > > truths > > > and misinformation. > > > > > The GOP is using their shock troops who still believe that President > > > Obama > > > was not born in the US despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary! > > > > > These individuals are now using the same Birther reasoning to shout > > > abuse at town halls in an attempt to show Congress that America is > > > against Health care reform. > > > > > These are the same people who thought…. > > > > > There were WMD’s. > > > > > Terri Schiavo was not brain dead. > > > > > The was a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > Al qaeda was in Iraq before the Iraq Invasion. > > > > > Spying on Americans without a warrant is not against the law. > > > > > The White House was not responsible for the Treasonous release > > > of a covert CIA Operatives identity. > > > > > The US not tortured Iraqis, some to death, and if they did it was to > > > protect > > > Americans, not to find a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > Bush did protect Americans from the 9/11 attack > > > even after ignoring several dozen warnings of a pending attack. > > > > > I can go on and on , but lets skip to the latest lunatic fringe > > > far right conspiracy which once again ignores the truth and the > > > facts to tell the LIE, Obama is not an Native born American. > > > The facts, a certified birth certificate and birth announcements > > > in local papers announcing Obama’s birth seem not to matter > > > to the hate driven core racist of the GOP, the fools who believe > > > ignorance trumps intelligence, and incompetence arrogance and > > > ignorance are forgivable even if it costs American lives > > > > > These are the people now giving advice on the Health Care solution! > > > > > Enough is enough! > > > > > If you want failure as we had the last 8 years, listen to Republicans, > > > > > If you want the continued slow recovery and a future! Listen to the > > > President and the Democrats! > >
Your Social Security disability check?
CW
On Aug 6, 11:55 am, Hollywood wrote: > Sage2, > > Thought we were talking about access. Mysocialsecuritycheckis > directly deposited into my bank account, guess the govt. has access. > My house mortgage is also handled that way, guess my Mortgage company > has access to my account. Etc. etc. etc. > > On Aug 6, 10:26 am, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > Holly, > > > Only by legal action and garnishing wages > > for tax purposes, not direct deposit style where they would take > > ( steal ) at will without accountability. You your ilk and the PIMP > > ( president in my pocket ) are going to hit a brick wall on this one. > > Time to wake up before you guys hit that wall! > > > **************************************************************************************************************************** > > > On Aug 6, 11:16 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > Sage2, > > > > “The Govt.” already HAS direct acess to your bank account and has for > > > years. Ask anyone that has had accounts seized by the IRS. You didn’t > > > know this? > > > > On Aug 6, 1:15 am, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > Holly , > > > > > When you get to page 58, see how the government > > > > will have direct access to your bank account. My insurance company > > > > does not have access to my account! > > > > > ************************************************************************************************************* > > > > > On Aug 6, 12:23 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > Frankly, I’ll have to pull up HR 3200 and examine it closer before i > > > > > can make an objective and informed comment on it’s contents. To date > > > > > I’ve only read what others CLAIM it contains. > > > > > > On Aug 5, 11:14 pm, RichardForbes > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I am trying to keep an open mind about this and look for the good > > > > > > ideas imbedded in the proposals. I am not very excited about HR 3200, > > > > > > but the one idea they have correct is the Health Insurance Exchange. > > > > > > The problem is that they take it too far. There is no need to do > > > > > > that. Feel free to challenge me on my ideas, as I can only improve > > > > > > them with input from other people with open minds about the topic. I > > > > > > am not opposed to good reform, but I really do not think that HR 3200 > > > > > > is the answer. > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:55 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > Very good idea. > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:53 pm, RichardForbes > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > We have attempted to make our pension benefits portable. The same > > > > > > > > idea is important for healthcare, though the implementation is a bit > > > > > > > > different. I think that the combination of a government clearing > > > > > > > > house for small employers and individuals along with a federal > > > > > > > > exemption similar to ERISA would provide a bsais for the capacity to > > > > > > > > create a more portable system. Any person teminated could gain access > > > > > > > > through the clearing house and any person changing employers would > > > > > > > > have the same capacity. It would eliminate much of the need for > > > > > > > > insurers to have pre-existing condition clauses because the size of > > > > > > > > the group would be large enough to limit the risk of adverse > > > > > > > > selection. > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:46 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > > That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do not believe we > > > > > > > > > have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or germany or > > > > > > > > > the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been doing this for > > > > > > > > > years, carefully examine the systems or several of the nations that > > > > > > > > > seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the best ideas > > > > > > > > > from each of them and adopt them to our own country. There is, I > > > > > > > > > believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing only, that > > > > > > > > > would help a great deal is to not link health insurance to one’s > > > > > > > > > employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain the same > > > > > > > > > insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to employer > > > > > > > > > without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a county, state, > > > > > > > > > whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance companies to > > > > > > > > > insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just those not > > > > > > > > > already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out some sort of > > > > > > > > > interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have safeguards in > > > > > > > > > place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING else. Fund it > > > > > > > > > by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure there will be > > > > > > > > > administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the administrative > > > > > > > > > expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed (hopefully) the > > > > > > > > > interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set a goodly > > > > > > > > > portion of those administrative costs. > > > > > > > > > that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top of my head. > > > > > > > > > > And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive bids for all > > > > > > > > > the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list of approved > > > > > > > > > suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best price. if > > > > > > > > > Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? Well to bad, > > > > > > > > > guess some other drug store will get all the medicare business. Hell, > > > > > > > > > how many people would start a drug store just to have all the medicare/ > > > > > > > > > medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state? > > > > > > > > > > And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your thinking, and > > > > > > > > > that’s more than i can say for most people here and in our government. > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an > > > > > > > > > > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it > > > > > > > > > > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your > > > > > > > > > > reply. > > > > > > > > > > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), > > > > > > > > > > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following: > > > > > > > > > > > First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group > > > > > > > > > > and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to > > > > > > > > > > obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to > > > > > > > > > > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much > > > > > > > > > > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > > > > > > > > > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state > > > > > > > > > > laws and thus make > > > > > > > > > > them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition > > > > > > > > > > and reduce prices. > > > > > > > > > > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a > > > > > > > > > > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing > > > > > > > > > > the “Cadillac policies”. > > > > > > > > > > > Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have > > > > > > > > > > catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can > > > > > > > > > > self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against > > > > > > > > > > the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers. > > > > > > > > > > > It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would > > > > > > > > > > understand it and it would > > > > > > > > > > actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to > > > > > > > > > > ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I > > > > > > > > > > recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to > > > > > > > > > > limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add > > > > > > > > > > value. > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know what you think of the ideas. > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > > > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > > > > > > > > > > > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > > > > > > > > > > > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > > > > > > > > > > > universal health care for their citizens? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > > > > > > > > > > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > > > > > > > > > > > you. Do you think that the federal government will more efficiently > > > > > > > > > > > > administer the healthcare in our country? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > > > > > > > > > > > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
Cold,
Yes. Why?
On Aug 7, 6:51 am, Cold Water
wrote: > Your Social Security disability check? > > CW > > On Aug 6, 11:55 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Sage2, > > > Thought we were talking about access. Mysocialsecuritycheckis > > directly deposited into my bank account, guess the govt. has access. > > My house mortgage is also handled that way, guess my Mortgage company > > has access to my account. Etc. etc. etc. > > > On Aug 6, 10:26 am, Sage2 wrote: > > > > Holly, > > > > Only by legal action and garnishing wages > > > for tax purposes, not direct deposit style where they would take > > > ( steal ) at will without accountability. You your ilk and the PIMP > > > ( president in my pocket ) are going to hit a brick wall on this one. > > > Time to wake up before you guys hit that wall! > > > > **************************************************************************************************************************** > > > > On Aug 6, 11:16 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Sage2, > > > > > “The Govt.” already HAS direct acess to your bank account and has for > > > > years. Ask anyone that has had accounts seized by the IRS. You didn’t > > > > know this? > > > > > On Aug 6, 1:15 am, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > Holly , > > > > > > When you get to page 58, see how the government > > > > > will have direct access to your bank account. My insurance company > > > > > does not have access to my account! > > > > > > ************************************************************************************************************* > > > > > > On Aug 6, 12:23 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > Frankly, I’ll have to pull up HR 3200 and examine it closer before i > > > > > > can make an objective and informed comment on it’s contents. To date > > > > > > I’ve only read what others CLAIM it contains. > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 11:14 pm, RichardForbes > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I am trying to keep an open mind about this and look for the good > > > > > > > ideas imbedded in the proposals. I am not very excited about HR 3200, > > > > > > > but the one idea they have correct is the Health Insurance Exchange. > > > > > > > The problem is that they take it too far. There is no need to do > > > > > > > that. Feel free to challenge me on my ideas, as I can only improve > > > > > > > them with input from other people with open minds about the topic. I > > > > > > > am not opposed to good reform, but I really do not think that HR 3200 > > > > > > > is the answer. > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:55 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > Very good idea. > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:53 pm, RichardForbes > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > We have attempted to make our pension benefits portable. The same > > > > > > > > > idea is important for healthcare, though the implementation is a bit > > > > > > > > > different. I think that the combination of a government clearing > > > > > > > > > house for small employers and individuals along with a federal > > > > > > > > > exemption similar to ERISA would provide a bsais for the capacity to > > > > > > > > > create a more portable system. Any person teminated could gain access > > > > > > > > > through the clearing house and any person changing employers would > > > > > > > > > have the same capacity. It would eliminate much of the need for > > > > > > > > > insurers to have pre-existing condition clauses because the size of > > > > > > > > > the group would be large enough to limit the risk of adverse > > > > > > > > > selection. > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:46 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > > > That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do not believe we > > > > > > > > > > have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or germany or > > > > > > > > > > the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been doing this for > > > > > > > > > > years, carefully examine the systems or several of the nations that > > > > > > > > > > seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the best ideas > > > > > > > > > > from each of them and adopt them to our own country. There is, I > > > > > > > > > > believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing only, that > > > > > > > > > > would help a great deal is to not link health insurance to one’s > > > > > > > > > > employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain the same > > > > > > > > > > insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to employer > > > > > > > > > > without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a county, state, > > > > > > > > > > whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance companies to > > > > > > > > > > insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just those not > > > > > > > > > > already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out some sort of > > > > > > > > > > interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have safeguards in > > > > > > > > > > place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING else. Fund it > > > > > > > > > > by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure there will be > > > > > > > > > > administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the administrative > > > > > > > > > > expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed (hopefully) the > > > > > > > > > > interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set a goodly > > > > > > > > > > portion of those administrative costs. > > > > > > > > > > that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top of my head. > > > > > > > > > > > And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive bids for all > > > > > > > > > > the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list of approved > > > > > > > > > > suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best price. if > > > > > > > > > > Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? Well to bad, > > > > > > > > > > guess some other drug store will get all the medicare business. Hell, > > > > > > > > > > how many people would start a drug store just to have all the medicare/ > > > > > > > > > > medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state? > > > > > > > > > > > And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your thinking, and > > > > > > > > > > that’s more than i can say for most people here and in our government. > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > > > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an > > > > > > > > > > > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it > > > > > > > > > > > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your > > > > > > > > > > > reply. > > > > > > > > > > > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), > > > > > > > > > > > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following: > > > > > > > > > > > > First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group > > > > > > > > > > > and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to > > > > > > > > > > > obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to > > > > > > > > > > > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much > > > > > > > > > > > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > > > > > > > > > > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state > > > > > > > > > > > laws and thus make > > > > > > > > > > > them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition > > > > > > > > > > > and reduce prices. > > > > > > > > > > > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a > > > > > > > > > > > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing > > > > > > > > > > > the “Cadillac policies”. > > > > > > > > > > > > Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have > > > > > > > > > > > catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can > > > > > > > > > > > self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against > > > > > > > > > > > the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers. > > > > > > > > > > > > It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would > > > > > > > > > > > understand it and it would > > > > > > > > > > > actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to > > > > > > > > > > > ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I > > > > > > > > > > > recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to > > > > > > > > > > > limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add > > > > > > > > > > > value. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please let me know what you think of the ideas. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > > > > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > > > > > > > > > > > > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > > > > > > > > > > > > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > > > > > > > > > > > > universal health care for their citizens? > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > > > > > > > > > > > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > > > > > > > > > > > > you. Do you think that the federal government > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -
Woody,
Why not?
CW
They would be on their way OUT if we had passed ANY law. DUH!
On Aug 5, 11:00 pm, Sage2 wrote: > VT, > > You say ” reform ” I say it’s “amnesty “. So why do > law abiding citizens have to pay for 12 to 15 million ” illegal alien > immigrants ” health care, welfare, schooling or anything else. THEY > ARE HERE “ILLEGALALLY” DUHHH! > > ****************************************************************************************************************************************** > > On Aug 5, 9:40 pm, VT VirtualTruth
wrote: > > > The GOP stopped ANY reform from happening and NOW > > you are bitching because there is STILL a illegal immigration > > problem! DUH! > > > So the GOP is trying the same thing with Health Care Reform, > > and if they manage to STOP all reform I can see you bitching in > > 7 years when Medicaid and Medicare become insolvent because > > of the baby boomers retiring about why didn’t the Government > > fix health care! > > > On Aug 5, 8:58 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > VT, > > > > The repubs did not block any immigration laws, ( I > > > guess you mean amnesty ). It is the ” illegal alien Immigrants who > > > have broken the laws. Now you and the other ” sponge monkey ” > > > parasites want to give them free healthcare. DUHHHH! > > > ********************************************************************************* > > > > VT, > > > > No! I mean redistribution of wealth by a socialist > > > taking the hard earned money of the middle working class and giving > > > it to parasite liberal ” sponge monkeys ” continuously looking for > > > handouts like ACORN, unions, “illegal alien immigrants” and the rest > > > of of the non working liberal class. > > > > ********************************************************************************** > > > > On Aug 5, 7:34 pm, VT VirtualTruth
wrote: > > > > > IF the Republicans had not blocked the Immigration > > > > laws, the issue of paying for illegal immigrants would > > > > be mote. > > > > > Republicans never looked for a way to pay for the Medicare > > > > Drug Prescription Program, but now they are fiscal conservatives! > > > > Preventative care will save $Trillions long term during the Baby > > > > Boomer retirement. > > > > > Redistribution of wealth? You mean taking trillions from working class > > > > Americans and giving it to the Wealthiest Americans in ill conceived > > > > and vote buying tax cuts during war time? > > > > > The GOP is playing the race baiting card HARD! You just did it > > > > yourself! > > > > > Tax Cheats! What about off shore tax havens that the GOP > > > > refused to regulate? > > > > > On Aug 4, 11:57 am, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > VT, > > > > > > 1. [ cost ]…… why should we pay > > > > > for health care for 12 to 14 million ( illegal alien immigrants ) > > > > > that is $230,000,000,000 extra in cost over ten years. > > > > > > 2. No way to pay for it unless taxes > > > > > for the working middle class goes up. Obama also wants to tax my > > > > > health care benefits at work. > > > > > > 3. Obama’s Redistribution of wealth > > > > > dogma is an anti-American pro-socialist approach and is a catalyst for > > > > > revolt > > > > > > 4. Playing the race/class card to > > > > > steal from the middle working & upper classes and not ( unions and > > > > > minority organizations ) is based on ” divisiveness & hate ” by > > > > > liberal fear mongers like you. > > > > > > 5. Hypocrite liberal ” tax cheats ” > > > > > like Geithner, Sebelius, Rangle, Dodd and Frank have no moral right to > > > > > impose taxes on the American people and neither do you or guys like > > > > > Holly. > > > > > > ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************** > > > > > > On Aug 3, 3:58 pm, VT Sean Lewis
wrote: > > > > > > > Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! > > > > > > The Republican party is becoming the party of hatred and the > > > > > > destruction of the American dream. > > > > > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > > August 3, 2009 > > > > > > > 1) Minimal basic coverage for the unemployed and uninsured. > > > > > > > 2) Preventative care to lower future costs > > > > > > > 3) Restructure Medicare and Medicaid so they don’t go bankrupt. > > > > > > > Who could possibly be against this reform? > > > > > > > Republicans! > > > > > > > Republicans had control of the last 8 years of the > > > > > > US political system, with Bush having veto > > > > > > power for all eight and the GOP control of the > > > > > > Congress for 6 years. The result was the almost > > > > > > complete destruction of the US economy. > > > > > > > The country was on the brink of complete collapse > > > > > > the last quarter of the Bush Administration. An > > > > > > Administration and party that was in complete > > > > > > denial there was a problem with the economy. > > > > > > > It was with the last minute infusion of over $1 Trillion > > > > > > in a single quarter that saved the country from another > > > > > > Depression type collapse. > > > > > > > When economic pollicies almost end in complete > > > > > > collapse, in my book that means FAILURE! Why > > > > > > take advice from people who almost detroyed the > > > > > > very thing America needed to stay strong? > > > > > > > The effects are still being felt 3 quarters later, however > > > > > > we have steered away from the edge by NEW Democratic > > > > > > Leadership. > > > > > > > There is no longer talk of the US facing economic collapse, > > > > > > in fact there is talk of a stock market BULL rally. > > > > > > > Yet Republicans are using everything in their political > > > > > > arsenal to stop the Democrats and the Country itself > > > > > > from succeeding. > > > > > > > The lunatic fringe of the GOP are using lies, scare tactics, > > > > > > hatred and race baiting to focus the attention of the country > > > > > > away from healing and recovery to more of the same of the last > > > > > > 8 years. Division, strife, class warfare and most recently > > > > > > racism. > > > > > > > The latest obstruction to US recovery is healthcare reform. > > > > > > > Under the Bush Administration more people have entered the > > > > > > uninsured rolls, the costs associated with the Social Programs > > > > > > of Medicare, Medicaid have risen unchecked and even increased > > > > > > due to the one ‘FIX’ Republicans attempted, the Medicare Prescription > > > > > > Drug program that did not help anyone who was not insured and > > > > > > cost $850 Billion a year at it’s inception, this figure > > > > > > will climb as the Baby boomers retire all to give Viagra to the > > > > > > pension > > > > > > crowd. > > > > > > > The Republicans rather than fixing the healthcare system actually > > > > > > have hurried up it’s demise. Because of what the Republicans have > > > > > > done, > > > > > > Medicare and Medicaid will go bankrupt FASTER and the Baby Boomers > > > > > > will be left with FEWER options if any! > > > > > > > The Democrats are trying to fix this with reform in the form > > > > > > of preventative care, which will lower FUTURE costs of medical care. > > > > > > > Costs control by forcing the insurance and drug companies to offer > > > > > > lower priced care through competition. > > > > > > > Finally actually offering Minimal low cost coverage for the uninsured > > > > > > and unemployed! > > > > > > > Without these changes the fate of Healthcare will be similar to the > > > > > > collapse of the economy in the fall of 2008! > > > > > > > So the GOP is using scare tactics similar to the tactics to get > > > > > > this country into war with Iraq. Scare Tactics based on lies, half > > > > > > truths > > > > > > and misinformation. > > > > > > > The GOP is using their shock troops who still believe that President > > > > > > Obama > > > > > > was not born in the US despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary! > > > > > > > These individuals are now using the same Birther reasoning to shout > > > > > > abuse at town halls in an attempt to show Congress that America is > > > > > > against Health care reform. > > > > > > > These are the same people who thought…. > > > > > > > There were WMD’s. > > > > > > > Terri Schiavo was not brain dead. > > > > > > > The was a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > > Al qaeda was in Iraq before the Iraq Invasion. > > > > > > > Spying on Americans without a warrant is not against the law. > > > > > > > The White House was not responsible for the Treasonous release > > > > > > of a covert CIA Operatives identity. > > > > > > > The US not tortured Iraqis, some to death, and if they did it was to > > > > > > protect > > > > > > Americans, not to find a connection between Iraq and 9/11. > > > > > > > Bush did protect Americans from the 9/11 attack > > > > > > even after ignoring several dozen warnings of a pending attack. > > > > > > > I can go on and on , but lets skip to the latest lunatic fringe > > > > > > far right conspiracy which once again ignores the truth and the > > > > > > facts to tell the LIE, Obama is not an Native born American. > > > > > > The facts, a certified birth certificate and birth announcements > > > > > > in local papers announcing Obama’s birth seem not to matter > > > > > > to the hate driven core racist of the GOP, the fools who believe > > > > > > ignorance trumps intelligence, and incompetence arrogance and > > > > > > ignorance are forgivable even if it costs American lives > > … > > read more »
Welcome to the modern world, I have automatic withdrawal for all my monthly bills.
On Aug 6, 2:15 am, Sage2 wrote: > Holly , > > When you get to page 58, see how the government > will have direct access to your bank account. My insurance company > does not have access to my account! > > ************************************************************************************************************* > > On Aug 6, 12:23 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > Richard, > > > Frankly, I’ll have to pull up HR 3200 and examine it closer before i > > can make an objective and informed comment on it’s contents. To date > > I’ve only read what others CLAIM it contains. > > > On Aug 5, 11:14 pm, RichardForbes > > wrote: > > > > I am trying to keep an open mind about this and look for the good > > > ideas imbedded in the proposals. I am not very excited about HR 3200, > > > but the one idea they have correct is the Health Insurance Exchange. > > > The problem is that they take it too far. There is no need to do > > > that. Feel free to challenge me on my ideas, as I can only improve > > > them with input from other people with open minds about the topic. I > > > am not opposed to good reform, but I really do not think that HR 3200 > > > is the answer. > > > > On Aug 5, 10:55 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > Richard, > > > > > Very good idea. > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:53 pm, RichardForbes > > > > wrote: > > > > > > We have attempted to make our pension benefits portable. The same > > > > > idea is important for healthcare, though the implementation is a bit > > > > > different. I think that the combination of a government clearing > > > > > house for small employers and individuals along with a federal > > > > > exemption similar to ERISA would provide a bsais for the capacity to > > > > > create a more portable system. Any person teminated could gain access > > > > > through the clearing house and any person changing employers would > > > > > have the same capacity. It would eliminate much of the need for > > > > > insurers to have pre-existing condition clauses because the size of > > > > > the group would be large enough to limit the risk of adverse > > > > > selection. > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:46 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do not believe we > > > > > > have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or germany or > > > > > > the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been doing this for > > > > > > years, carefully examine the systems or several of the nations that > > > > > > seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the best ideas > > > > > > from each of them and adopt them to our own country. There is, I > > > > > > believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing only, that > > > > > > would help a great deal is to not link health insurance to one’s > > > > > > employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain the same > > > > > > insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to employer > > > > > > without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a county, state, > > > > > > whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance companies to > > > > > > insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just those not > > > > > > already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out some sort of > > > > > > interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have safeguards in > > > > > > place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING else. Fund it > > > > > > by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure there will be > > > > > > administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the administrative > > > > > > expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed (hopefully) the > > > > > > interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set a goodly > > > > > > portion of those administrative costs. > > > > > > that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top of my head. > > > > > > > And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive bids for all > > > > > > the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list of approved > > > > > > suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best price. if > > > > > > Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? Well to bad, > > > > > > guess some other drug store will get all the medicare business. Hell, > > > > > > how many people would start a drug store just to have all the medicare/ > > > > > > medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state? > > > > > > > And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your thinking, and > > > > > > that’s more than i can say for most people here and in our government. > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust to merit an > > > > > > > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was loaded and it > > > > > > > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would like your > > > > > > > reply. > > > > > > > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an adequate answer), > > > > > > > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do the following: > > > > > > > > First, you let the government create a clearing house for small group > > > > > > > and individual purchases. That would give those the capacity to > > > > > > > obtain insurance at group rates and would require little time to > > > > > > > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. In fact, much > > > > > > > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > > > > > > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt insurers from state > > > > > > > laws and thus make > > > > > > > them free to sell across state lines. That would increase competition > > > > > > > and reduce prices. > > > > > > > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage employers to provide a > > > > > > > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them from providing > > > > > > > the “Cadillac policies”. > > > > > > > > Last of all, you focus on assuring that all Americans have > > > > > > > catastrophic coverage and flexible spending accounts so that they can > > > > > > > self-insure against minor health needs and still be protected against > > > > > > > the biggest risks and thus make them healthcare consumers. > > > > > > > > It would take about FOUR pages to draft my bill and most would > > > > > > > understand it and it would > > > > > > > actually reduce the cost of healthcare. Obviously, I am opposed to > > > > > > > ALL government bureaucracy without a very good reason. But, I > > > > > > > recognize they can help in some ways. I just think it is best to > > > > > > > limit their involvement to those rare areas where they can add > > > > > > > value. > > > > > > > > Please let me know what you think of the ideas. > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:31 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > I’ll counter that with a question of my own. Do you really think that > > > > > > > > American’s are the ONLY modern, industrialized nation in the world too > > > > > > > > corrupt and/or stupid to be able to figure out a system to supply > > > > > > > > universal health care for their citizens? > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:18 pm, RichardForbes wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > > I did not read through the entire thread and I have no idea what you > > > > > > > > > may have said in prior posts. With that said, I have a question for > > > > > > > > > you. Do you think that the federal government will more efficiently > > > > > > > > > administer the healthcare in our country? > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:05 pm, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > frankg, > > > > > > > > > > > If the car dealers lay off people, if the car manufacturers lay off > > > > > > > > > > people, if the banks that make car loans lay off people,if the > > > > > > > > > > suppliers of those car dealers and manufacturers and banks lay off > > > > > > > > > > people whose money do you think will be used to pay for unemployment > > > > > > > > > > checks, food stamps if they need it, etc? > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:42 pm, frankg wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark, > > > > > > > > > > > > No kidding. I’m willing to bet I can drive the sales up on just about > > > > > > > > > > > anything by offering to help pay for it with someone else’s money. > > > > > > > > > > > What’s the point? > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 8:49 pm, Mark wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > auto sales are up over 25% in europe under an identical program….it is > > > > > > > > > > > > working > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 5:37 PM, VT VirtualTruth > > > > > > > > > > > >
wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I got news for you, the fact that the program was depletedr an identical > > > > > > > > > > > > > program….it is working. > > > > > > > > > > > > > so quickly shows there was a need and as a stimulus > > > > > > > > > > > > > the earnings numbers for the auto industry says > > > > > > > > > > > > > it worked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 4, 1:17 pm, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doc, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You and VT should take the advice of Senato sales or Schumer ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > D-NY ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > who said of the cash for clunkers program ” don’t fix what ain’t broke > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ” . Health Care ain’t broken , it just needs a little adjustment, but > > > > > > > > > > > > > > guys like Obama and his ilk want to crush it ! > > … > > read more »
When the SURPLUS was actually money BORROWED from our future Medicare and Social Security payments I do think it was taking money from the working class.
I guess because I know how things atually work I am at a disadvantage in discussing reality with the ideologically blind.
On Aug 6, 8:32 am, MJ wrote: > VT > Redistribution of wealth? You mean taking trillions from working class > Americans and giving it to the Wealthiest Americans in ill conceived > and vote buying tax cuts during war time? > > MJ > Allowing People to RETAIN their money is NOT a ‘redistribution’. > > Regard$, > –MJ > > All taxation is an evil, but heavy taxes, indiscriminately levied on > everything … are one of the greatest curses that can afflict people. > — Brooks Adams writer-historian and grandson of President John Quincy Adams
LMFAO, talk about sentencing people to DEATH!
END Medicaid End Medicare End charitable hospitals
This guy is crazy!
On Aug 6, 3:41 pm, MJ wrote: > Let’s Make Health Care Inexpensive Againby Harry BrowneMay 2, 2002 > > The politicians are pushing to raise the cost of your health insurance again. > Of course, that’s not how they describe what they’re doing. They claim to be exercising compassion when they propose to force insurance companies to include mental illness in every health-insurance policy. > Politicians love to posture as friends of particular groupswomen, children, and people suffering from a particular diseaseby forcing insurance companies to cover some medical procedure that’s important to a target audience. But every time the government (state or federal) forces insurers to include another benefit in your policy, your premium has to go up. > So it isn’t surprising that over three decades the cost of health insurance has risen spectacularly.Do You Need It? > > Depending on the state you live in, your health insurance may be priced to include mandatory coverage of chiropractors, acupuncture, naturopathy, marriage counseling, abortions, drug abuse, alcoholism, treatments to stop smoking, cosmetic surgery, weight loss, wigs and other hairpieces, Christian Science practitioners, and dozens of other possibilities. > I have nothing against any of these treatments. But it makes no sense for the government to force you to pay for such coverage if you’d prefer a cheaper policy. Just as when you buy a computer or a cell phone, you should be able to select and pay for only the featuresyouneed and wantnot what the politicians think you need. > As the politicians keep pushing up the cost, every medical interest group suffers. So most of them go to Washington (or the state capitol) to lobby the politicians to provide relief by forcing insurers to add their favored treatment to the mandatory coveragepushing the price up further.Losing Health Insurance > > It may be hard to believe, but back in the 1950s health insurance cost just a few dollars a month for most peopleand it was available to virtually everyone, including people with pre-existing conditions. > The percentage of people covered grew steadily from the 1940s. And by the early 1970s, almost all Americans were covered by some form of insurance. Then the politicians went to work to load up policies with mandatory coverage of all sorts of conditions that may be of no use to you. More and more people decided that insurance had become too expensive and decided to risk being uninsured. By the 1990s coverage had dropped to under 70% of Americans. > > In addition, many employers decided health coverage was too expensive. In 1980 fully 97% of the companies with 100 or more employees provided medical coverage. By 1995, only 77% were doing so. > The growing number of uninsured people gives politicians more ammunition for more programs to force more costs onto insurance companies, and to push the price of insurance still higher.How HMOs Became So Powerful > > The cost of insurance is only one area where the politicians have ruined our health-care system. > You may have noticed that they’re also pushing for a “Patients’ Bill of Rights”supposedly to give patients certain privileges in dealing with health maintenance organizations (HMOs). > No one is pushing for a “Bill of Rights” to protect patients against doctorsor against druggists, supermarkets, computer stores, or interior decorators. So how did HMOs become so powerful and dictatorial that their customers need protection? > Nearly 30 years ago Congress passed the HMO Act of 1973which subsidized HMOs and gave them a preferred position among employers. The Act was finally repealed in 1995, but by that time HMOs had become thoroughly entrenched as the centerpiece of employer-sponsored health programs. > Once again, the politicians are seizing the opportunity to save us from their own handiwork.The Solution > > The solution to all today’s medical problems is toget government out of health care. > At a minimum we need to:End Medicare, so that seniors and everyone else can have low-cost health care again, as well as access to all treatments and tests a doctor thinks advisable.End Medicaid, to stop the senseless waste of money by corrupt state medical agencies.End the federal regulation that has driven so many charity hospitals and free clinics out of business.Repeal all the state and federal laws that tell insurance companies what benefits to include in their policies.Make all medical expenses deductible on your income tax return, so your employer can raise your salary instead of providing insurance coverageletting you choose the health care system most appropriate for you, deducting the cost directly from your income tax. > These are the kinds of solutions that show real compassion for the sick and the vulnerable. > And that’s why no politician is proposing them.
Cold,,
Whatever
On Aug 7, 6:11 pm, Cold Water
wrote: > Woody, > > Why not? > > CW > > > > —– Original Message —– > From: “Hollywood” > To: “PoliticalForum”
> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 07:09 > Subject: Re: Health Care Reform is NEEDED NOW! The Republican party is > becoming the party of hatred and the destruction of the American dream. > > Cold, > > Yes. Why? > > On Aug 7, 6:51 am, Cold Water
wrote: > > Your Social Security disability check? > > > CW > > > On Aug 6, 11:55 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > Sage2, > > > > Thought we were talking about access. Mysocialsecuritycheckis > > > directly deposited into my bank account, guess the govt. has access. > > > My house mortgage is also handled that way, guess my Mortgage company > > > has access to my account. Etc. etc. etc. > > > > On Aug 6, 10:26 am, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > Holly, > > > > > Only by legal action and garnishing wages > > > > for tax purposes, not direct deposit style where they would take > > > > ( steal ) at will without accountability. You your ilk and the PIMP > > > > ( president in my pocket ) are going to hit a brick wall on this one. > > > > Time to wake up before you guys hit that wall! > > > > > **************************************************************************************************************************** > > > > > On Aug 6, 11:16 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > Sage2, > > > > > > “The Govt.” already HAS direct acess to your bank account and has > > > > > for > > > > > years. Ask anyone that has had accounts seized by the IRS. You > > > > > didn’t > > > > > know this? > > > > > > On Aug 6, 1:15 am, Sage2 wrote: > > > > > > > Holly , > > > > > > > When you get to page 58, see how the government > > > > > > will have direct access to your bank account. My insurance company > > > > > > does not have access to my account! > > > > > > > ************************************************************************************************************* > > > > > > > On Aug 6, 12:23 am, Hollywood wrote: > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > Frankly, I’ll have to pull up HR 3200 and examine it closer > > > > > > > before i > > > > > > > can make an objective and informed comment on it’s contents. To > > > > > > > date > > > > > > > I’ve only read what others CLAIM it contains. > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 11:14 pm, RichardForbes > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I am trying to keep an open mind about this and look for the > > > > > > > > good > > > > > > > > ideas imbedded in the proposals. I am not very excited about > > > > > > > > HR 3200, > > > > > > > > but the one idea they have correct is the Health Insurance > > > > > > > > Exchange. > > > > > > > > The problem is that they take it too far. There is no need to > > > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > that. Feel free to challenge me on my ideas, as I can only > > > > > > > > improve > > > > > > > > them with input from other people with open minds about the > > > > > > > > topic. I > > > > > > > > am not opposed to good reform, but I really do not think that > > > > > > > > HR 3200 > > > > > > > > is the answer. > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:55 pm, Hollywood > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > > Very good idea. > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:53 pm, RichardForbes > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > We have attempted to make our pension benefits portable. > > > > > > > > > > The same > > > > > > > > > > idea is important for healthcare, though the > > > > > > > > > > implementation is a bit > > > > > > > > > > different. I think that the combination of a government > > > > > > > > > > clearing > > > > > > > > > > house for small employers and individuals along with a > > > > > > > > > > federal > > > > > > > > > > exemption similar to ERISA would provide a bsais for the > > > > > > > > > > capacity to > > > > > > > > > > create a more portable system. Any person teminated could > > > > > > > > > > gain access > > > > > > > > > > through the clearing house and any person changing > > > > > > > > > > employers would > > > > > > > > > > have the same capacity. It would eliminate much of the > > > > > > > > > > need for > > > > > > > > > > insurers to have pre-existing condition clauses because > > > > > > > > > > the size of > > > > > > > > > > the group would be large enough to limit the risk of > > > > > > > > > > adverse > > > > > > > > > > selection. > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 10:46 pm, Hollywood > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > > > > That you have. Nor was my question to you loaded. I do > > > > > > > > > > > not believe we > > > > > > > > > > > have to copy the system of any one nation, not France or > > > > > > > > > > > germany or > > > > > > > > > > > the Swiss, etc. I feel we should, and should have been > > > > > > > > > > > doing this for > > > > > > > > > > > years, carefully examine the systems or several of the > > > > > > > > > > > nations that > > > > > > > > > > > seem to have the most effective systems and “borrow” the > > > > > > > > > > > best ideas > > > > > > > > > > > from each of them and adopt them to our own country. > > > > > > > > > > > There is, I > > > > > > > > > > > believe, no one “magic bullet”. One thing, and one thing > > > > > > > > > > > only, that > > > > > > > > > > > would help a great deal is to not link health insurance > > > > > > > > > > > to one’s > > > > > > > > > > > employer. A working man/woman should be able to retain > > > > > > > > > > > the same > > > > > > > > > > > insurance he/she has AT THE SAME PRICE from employer to > > > > > > > > > > > employer > > > > > > > > > > > without interuption of coverage or benefits. Let a > > > > > > > > > > > county, state, > > > > > > > > > > > whatever take competitive bids from competing insurance > > > > > > > > > > > companies to > > > > > > > > > > > insure perhaps either all it’s citizens or perhaps just > > > > > > > > > > > those not > > > > > > > > > > > already covered by Medicare. Let the premium be paid out > > > > > > > > > > > some sort of > > > > > > > > > > > interest bearing fund owned by that entity and have > > > > > > > > > > > safeguards in > > > > > > > > > > > place that prevent that fund for being used for ANYTHING > > > > > > > > > > > else. Fund it > > > > > > > > > > > by taxes levied on all the citizens of that entity. Sure > > > > > > > > > > > there will be > > > > > > > > > > > administrative expenses. Thik we’re NOT paying for the > > > > > > > > > > > administrative > > > > > > > > > > > expensives of the insurance companies? Well managed > > > > > > > > > > > (hopefully) the > > > > > > > > > > > interest accumulated by such a large fund should off-set > > > > > > > > > > > a goodly > > > > > > > > > > > portion of those administrative costs. > > > > > > > > > > > that is ONE idea only, and pretty much just off the top > > > > > > > > > > > of my head. > > > > > > > > > > > > And FORCE Medicare and Medicaid to go out on competive > > > > > > > > > > > bids for all > > > > > > > > > > > the drugs and other supplies. You want to be on the list > > > > > > > > > > > of approved > > > > > > > > > > > suppliers of “XYZ” medications? You better have the best > > > > > > > > > > > price. if > > > > > > > > > > > Walgreens or CVS does not want to buy from that company? > > > > > > > > > > > Well to bad, > > > > > > > > > > > guess some other drug store will get all the medicare > > > > > > > > > > > business. Hell, > > > > > > > > > > > how many people would start a drug store just to have > > > > > > > > > > > all the medicare/ > > > > > > > > > > > medicaid reciepents in a city, county or state? > > > > > > > > > > > > And I like many of the ideas that you propose. Your > > > > > > > > > > > thinking, and > > > > > > > > > > > that’s more than i can say for most people here and in > > > > > > > > > > > our government. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 5, 9:49 pm, RichardForbes > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hollywood – > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would hope that I have earned enough of your trust > > > > > > > > > > > > to merit an > > > > > > > > > > > > honest reply to my question. I do not believe it was > > > > > > > > > > > > loaded and it > > > > > > > > > > > > reflected what I think is a significant issue. I would > > > > > > > > > > > > like your > > > > > > > > > > > > reply. > > > > > > > > > > > > > As to the question you asked, (I hope this is an > > > > > > > > > > > > adequate answer), > > > > > > > > > > > > from my perspective it is pretty simple. We need to do > > > > > > > > > > > > the following: > > > > > > > > > > > > > First, you let the government create a clearing house > > > > > > > > > > > > for small group > > > > > > > > > > > > and individual purchases. That would give those the > > > > > > > > > > > > capacity to > > > > > > > > > > > > obtain insurance at group rates and would require > > > > > > > > > > > > little time to > > > > > > > > > > > > implement or a significant bureaucracy for oversight. > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact, much > > > > > > > > > > > > of the cost could be directly passed to the insurers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second, you allow the federal government to exempt > > > > > > > > > > > > insurers from state > > > > > > > > > > > > laws and thus make > > > > > > > > > > > > them free to sell across state lines. That would > > > > > > > > > > > > increase competition > > > > > > > > > > > > and reduce prices. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Third, you utilize tax incentive to encourage > > > > > > > > > > > > employers to provide a > > > > > > > > > > > > minimal level of coverage while disincentivizing them > > … > > read more »- Hide quoted text – > > – Show quoted text -